13 replies · 251 views · thread synced · 4 days ago
· View on torn.com
About this thread
Posts archived:14 / 14 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
Counted by TornLife from the archived posts.
Archived posts
14
Discussion span
→
People posting
10
Likes on archived posts
17
Authority score
23 / 100
Historical score
19 / 100
Story score
37 / 100
Engagement score
60 / 100
Most-liked replies
Smokey123[248901]Helper
· 1 likes · This is similar to if a fly is hovering inside a car and the car begins to move forward. Does the fly move with the car and stay in place or get moved to the rear of the car?. That …
First of all, I'd like to point out that I am not a conspiracy theorist. I believe that the earth is round and that it spins. With that out of the way, here goes my question. If the earth really does spin, why cant planes travel across the earth by simply taking to the air and then maintaining a stationary position while in the air? I mean, if the earth spins, it should spin underneath the plane if it remains stationary in the air.
I KNOW that from Newton's first law of motion, the plane or helicopter will still have some momentum from the earth's spin when it takes off from the ground so you wouldn't immediately expect the earth to start spinning underneath said plane or helicopter right after it takes off. That notwithstanding, after some time in the air this momentum surely should wear off. Hence I would expect that a helicopter that has been hovering in a constant position above the earth surface for some time should find itself hovering over a different position on the earth's surface since the earth should be spinning underneath it even when it is not in contact with the surface. Needless to say, this is never the case.
I have tried reasoning out how gravity or the atmosphere and atmospheric pressure could be playing a part in this but I can't think of a satisfactory explanation. I would appreciate it if anyone with some knowledge could shed some light on this 'strange' phenomenon.
1. Your forward momentum is massive. You are travelling the same rate as the earth is rotating. 2. The atmosphere is as well, 'pushing' you along. 3. If you could actually hover, you'd have to spend massive amounts of fuel to do so, and then enough fuel to push yourself against your momentum. 4. Why do you think that when you drop something,say from a building, it doesn't land far away? The earth spins at 1,037 MPH at the equator. And why do you land directly beneath you, when you jump up on a bus? Unless it's accelerating, but then your forward momentum is staying the same while that of the bus is increasing.
Another explanation: Imagine a ballon. That you plan on filling with helium so it can hover.
The balloon when is not inflated, lying on the surface of the earth. It has actual initial speed: u = Earth surface velocity (NOT ZERO) Now since both earth and balloon are moving with same velocity, relative velocity is zero. Now you fill the balloon with lighter gas and it moves up. while moving up it has two velocity components. 1. A vertical upward velocity v 2. A horizontal surface velocity u (same as previous u) Now since the earth is moving at same speed - you don't see the effect of the second component. Had the earth been moving upward with the same velocity, you would not be able to see the effect of first either. 3rd - A thought experiment: Imagine a superman in outer space starts moving (not falling) towards earth, and then just 10000 meters above the earth he decides to not move and just hover. Then he will see the earth moving away.
This is similar to if a fly is hovering inside a car and the car begins to move forward. Does the fly move with the car and stay in place or get moved to the rear of the car?.
Acceleration? If the car goes from 0-100mph then SPLAT.. If the car accelerates slowly then there is no issue. Hovering = maintain speed of surrounding so the speed of the car vs the surroundings/earths rotation would make the difference?
ChloeChloe[2530354] · #9
This is a really interesting look at what would happen if the world stopped spinning.
a slightly different question than the one you asked but gives a very good view of the forced your theoretical stationary plane would be up against.
Same idea applies to the person in a lift in a tall building, and the lift fails (dead-man's brake fails, too).
There's a popular theory that if you jump just before the lift hits the ground, then this cancels your downward momentum and allows you to jump up and hence not be harmed.
Unfortunately, jumping up will reduce but not eliminate your downward momentum. Hence you will hit almost (but not quite) as hard as you would have done had you stayed put. Also, you will hit the ceiling of the lift harder as it comes and squashes you flat (lift gear is heavy and the lift box that you travel in is pretty flimsy - Hollywood has done you a dis-service in this respect).
The answer is simple - the plain flyes in the air. The air spins together with earth. That's it. Like fly in the car - the air inside the car is stationary. Try to open the windows - no fly will remain in the car.....
In reality everything that is above the surface of the earth the earth is orbiting the center of gravity (CG) of earth. meaning that the aircraft is orbiting the earth and so are the air molecules. even the moon is orbiting the CG of earth the aircraft will not lose it's rotational momentum because nothing is acting against it. When an object moves further from the center of gravity it requires more energy to stay at that orbit. but when something gets closer to the CG it moves faster because the energy from being in a higher orbit is being converted to kinetic energy. to stay in orbit inside earth's atmosphere require very high velocities that are not possible to achieve because of air resistance because the air is moving with the earth. also the only way for non lighter than air vehicles to not be touching the ground is by interacting with the air or expelling massive amounts of energy such as rockets. Planes and helicopters are using the air that is moving around the earth to keep them afloat. helicopters push air down to provide an upward force. when a plane is not moving relative to the ground the air is moving at the same speed as the plane. A plane can only achieve lift by the air moving in relation to it because the wings are redirecting the air down. they require relative velocity to air speed. As for rockets, they do actually experience what you are talking about to a degree. rockets go approximately straight up from the point they launch from and keep the rotational speed of the surface of the earth. since the rocket is at a higher altitude it has to move farther to move around the CG at the same angular speed (meaning the degrees around a circle per second). If you watch a rocket launch it appears that it is turning, but it is accelerating in a straight line. The rocket's angular velocity is not changing but its orbital height is increasing meaning is must follow a larger orbit and will take longer to do so. The earth's angular velocity is not changing either but it's position is not changing. so while they have the same angular velocities they have different angular positions.