Religion

What are your guys view on either your or different religions for me im atheist but im not trying to push that on others believe in whatever you believe in,What are your thoughts on whats after death do you believe in no afterlife or a afterlife explain(:

Not sure if this belongs in paranormal, but I'll give you my two cents on the subject:

I think it is actually quite complicated. I do not believe in the deities that are connected to any religion, because I have neither heard a satisfying explanation for their existence, nor for how they came into existence in the first place. Other than that, the beliefs and commandments that come with either of the religions collide with some of my morals and are not exactly consistent.

The big bang theory on the other hand is just as unfathomable as the existence of any deity, because our brains, or at least mine, cannot comprehend what a singularity is, just as we cannot comprehend that something can arise from nothing, let alone explain how.

So to be honest, I don't know what I should believe in, so I leave it up to my personal morals and values to live life the way I think is best. Not just for me, but also for others. Not so much in case there's an afterlife, if my life in earth determines whatever happens after I die, then so be it, but just because it feels right. For all I know it might simply be lights out indefinitely when you die.

Having said all this, I think people may believe in whatever they like. If they draw support or comfort from religion in any form, let them be. I'm not able to prove them wrong anyway, provided I'm looking to do that in the first place. I'm not. However, I draw the line where religion, or rather any belief, becomes an instrument to enforce something onto others. Regardless what you believe, you can never force others to believe the same or eradicate those that refuse to do so. Idealistic? Probably, yes, but at least it doesn’t harm others.

I agree That is a Good point of view

I'm a devout Protestant, so my beliefs are a little more stringent. But if 98% of unaffiliated people would lead a life with the same mindset as what you have presented, the world would be such a better place.
Respect

EDIT: By stringent, I mean that I (we?) tend and try to to live life in accordance to a set of guidelines given by God, and therefore cannot live as we see fit in just doing good. Now granted the vast majority of what most would see as good fit in those guidelines, but its not really up to a "You do You" kinda thing.

Thats interesting thank you for commenting

I'm not opposed to guidelines, not at all even. I'm sure 99% of the people could use some, if not 100%. The one thing I think is not right about the guidelines provided by any religion is the fact they are, yo some extent, limited to that particular religion and it's deity, be it God, Allah or whoever else. I feel guidelines on how to live life should not be limited to people that share a certain religion or exclude people that don't, though I know most people that follow any religion aren't such hardliners.

I personally do not need the prospect of a, for lack of a better word, 'reward' after my death to live my life caring for others as much as myself, but I do understand that does no go for everyone else. I realize people seek reassurance and meaning, both of which religion offers. I think that is a good thing, but that doesn't necessarily mean I need that as well. I treat people according to the way they treat me and others, regardless their color, religion or any other preference. If it turns out one (or more) of the religions was right after all, well, I suppose I'll have to deal with the consequences that brings then.

Some folks join a religion based on anticipated rewards. But at least speaking of Christianity, the New Testament strikes me as the story of Jesus trying to get first his disciples, including the Apostles, and then others he ministered to not just seek after rewards in the way of loot or station, but instead to seek rewards in the self-satisfied way of one that accomplishes good for the sake of doing good. That new followers would eventually adopt the same principles and goals out of understanding, not merely being told or shown what to do.

Said another way, instead of asking God what additional prizes they will get for additional righteousness, it becomes a matter of followers seeking to understand the principles by which the master operates so they can improve their own behaviors and perspective.

Sounds like I believe the same thing you do. If people aren't using their religion as a reason to hurt or oppress people, then I'm happy for them and their beliefs.

For me, I believe there is God but sometimes I just have this doubts on whether there's an afterlife.

I'm sure there are many people who approach religion like that, especially nowadays when the principles of religion are under heavy pressure due to certain events that are linked to religion, as unjustified as that may be. However, the promise of a reward when you prove you live by a particular religion's commandments blurs the sight on the purity and selflessness of those that chose to follow it, and so does the threat of ending up in a terrible place if you don't or don't repent. That right there makes religion difficult for me to accept as a way of living, even though I have adopted the idea of living life not just for myself, but also for others.

I thought about joining a religion once but then I figured there's got to be an easier way to get chicks.

If we're being serious I'm on board with skellington.

Imo if God exists then at least one episode of Ancient Aliens hit the nail on the head.

This was my favorite post

But i believe you all have amasing views and i think you for taking the time to comment i am learning a lot

Seriously though I'm not ruling it out.

Is selflessness of that degree desirable? My reading is that Christians are intended to be willing to sacrifice when the situation calls for it, but that their general mode will be of quiet industry and improvement. The selflessness that eschews any reward (even if what I suggested is satisfaction) isn't something I've really pondered and my initial reaction is that it may not be desirable. Even Jesus said he was going to have a seat at his father's right hand with glory and honor and such- I don't see the level of selflessness you describe there.

I'm not trying to make light of your critique- I'm explaining what doesn't flow to me because I don't feel like I'm on the same page with you. If you wouldn't mind helping me understand your point better?

I know you're not making light of my critique, I didn't read it like that at all. Also, it's okay not to be on the same page as this is something delicate and complicated and there are probably at least as many opinions as there are people. I'm all for a good discussion with depth. As you have probably figured out my mother tongue is not English, so it sometimes is hard to make my point clear without radiating the wrong vibes. I'll try to clear it up for you anyway, as I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

Selflessness in itself is most certainly desirable in my opinion, but only to a certain extent and within reason, both of which are determined by my personal morals. The ultimate sacrifice Jesus brought as described in the Bible, his life, is well beyond what I consider reasonable selflessness and as such not relevant to my point.

The point I was trying to make is that reasonable selflessness should never be about receiving a reward for it. I know from personal experience that the promise of a reward influences people and the way they behave and act, just as the promise of punishment when you don't follow certain rules does. This applies to the monetary, psychological and divine fields alike. That might, emphasis on might here of course, lead to people acting in a certain way with the sole purpose to either get the reward or avoid the punishment. That is perfectly normal behavior, but it influences the purity and genuine selflessness of one's behavior. In other words, as an example, does someone treat you with respect because they want to, because they have to to get rewarded or because they need to to avoid punishment?

That is the point I tried to make. I am in no way judging anyone for their choice of religion, not at all even. To each their own, I am in no position, nor qualified to tell anyone what to believe or what religion to follow or not. The above is simply my point of view regarding religion. I personally do not want to live by a set of rules that is set by something or someone I have no proof of existence of.

I'm better wrapping my head around your point. So to use a story (perhaps fictional, I don't know), I think we can highlight what you are saying.

3 masons were working on building a church house. An observer asked each in turn what they were doing.

The first- "Earning 3 shillings." (I don't remember the unit of money)
The second- "Building a wall."
The third- "Giving glory to God."

The moral of the story is that some motives are superior to others, as it sounds like you are saying. But I kind of get the impression that you would like to see a 4th mason say something to the effect of "Doing for others what they can't do for themselves.", which is to say, have zero motive for self.

I am curious what purpose that level of selflessness (if I may, I'll call it level 4) provides that makes it superior to level 3 (the mason that sought to bring glory to God?

I understand your desire for proof prior to following God. I would gently suggest that it does run counter to your earlier position somewhat. If a lesson purports to come from an altruistic God (a being that understands humans better than they do and wants good for them), then the selfless position would be to try it. If it succeeds, then people are better off. If it fails, the subject would give it no mind because they don't care if they look smart or not. They would move on to the next best idea of how to help others until they find the most superior they can.

Of course, such a trial of teachings is how I got my own proof of the existence of God. I (out of self interest) followed teachings that were given and found that they worked. As I did more to study and follow, I found they continued to work better. I am a better person as a result and I do more for others and for God as a result. I also catch what I believe are glimpses of how God looks at the world- how he sees other people, how he looks at the options when someone chooses how to act. My religion is to convert my life such that those glimpses become my more or less standard mode of operation, which is to say is to approach how God chooses to operate. And that seems like a pretty good goal to me- perhaps even too much for just the 80 or 100 years even the long-lived are allotted on this earth.

I definitely understand this, and those who just follow religion for the reward, for the most part, are not truly following it as they may believe they are. As far as mainstream Christianity goes, noting that many vocal parties have strayed from this path and have promoted themselves as a false and saddening face of Christianity, professes the Heaven/hell distinction, but rather emphasizes love, kindness, the care for others, sacrifice, as well as the need and promotion of community and discourse. I do my absolute best to follow the guidelines set because they lead to a satisfying, fruitful and good life. While the end, by end meaning the final destination, of heaven is definitely appealing, I love others to show the light and love I have been shown through my God. I try and make the world a better place, as much a single man can (minus the occasional troll).

This is just one disheartening example of how many have strayed. Note: many not-so-nice words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3-I_aSBfd4

I'm glad I made my point more clear and I certainly appreciate your view and where you stand on the subject. I'm convinced the path you chose did make you a better person. However, there are a few things in there that do not apply to me personally. I have been raised a Christian, so I have experienced the life of a religious person. Or rather, I know what influence religion CAN have on people's lives and I've seen first hand what it's about to be a (devout) Christian. I did some research on various religions, partly for my work, partly out of personal interest, which led to me purposely chosing to stop being a Christian. Or religious at all. The whole concept of a supreme being as it is described in various religions doesn't feel right to me, apart from the question of them actually existing. So I consciously decided to leave the path of religion and follow my own path, full well knowing my moral has been colored by my Christian upbringing. There is nothing wrong with that, in my opinion many rules taken from religion are perfect, common sense even. The part I chose not to comply with is the part where I have to answer to a supreme being that may or may not exist.

To translate that into your different levels, I like that metaphor btw, I consider myself a level 2 mostly. I have never cared for monetary wealth, as long as I earn enough to make a decent living I'm happy, so level 1 only applies to some extent. I have completely abandoned level 3. As for level 4, I am a level 4 at certain moments, but, again, only to a certain extent. I'm neither a Saint nor an altruist, I just keep an eye out for others and help when I can based on my personal moral. So your question:

I am curious what purpose that level of selflessness (if I may, I'll call it level 4) provides that makes it superior to level 3 (the mason that sought to bring glory to God?

is in my opinion rather easily answered: As I have no proof of God or any deity actually existing, I don't bring glory to them. I know I don't have proof he, she or they doesn't/don't exist either, but that path doesn't involve me having to do things I want proof of before I commit to them, so that is not relevant in this discussion. That basically means there is no level 3 for me, be it no longer or never at all. That automatically makes your level 4 superior to it. I accept the fact I may be wrong about al this and I'm willing to accept the consequences that may bring. For now I live my life as best as I can based on my personal moral and without the need to have to answer or justify myself to a supreme being that may or may not exist.

I of course do not know you, but I'm sure your path made or makes you a good person. We aren't that far apart where it comes to how we live our lives. It seems the difference is the fact you follow a religion, one I was raised with, and I don't. I don't want to answer to a supreme being that, from my point of view, may or may not exist. I certainly don't feel the need to follow a set of guidelines set by that same supreme being for a reward, let alone to be judged by, regardless their relevance. That does not mean I don't live by any of them, a lot of them are actually perfect, but I don't live by them in name of God or any other supreme being and certainly not for any other reward than being happy with how I live my life. So in a way I can be considered a stray as well, be it on purpose and well thought through.