Grandpa: forum

This is can be a sensitive topic for people, and that I understand that and I truly do apologise in advance if my questions/queries bring any offense to any person or party.

To start off with, I'd like to ask you all what your understanding of what discrimination is within the game?

I may be just blind and/naive to reality which wouldn't come to a total surprise but I'm torn without the use of a pun, between my understanding and level of acceptance of what I perceive to be "discrimination" and what I've been informed by the Staff member I spoke to is actually an appropriate action within the expections of the Rules ingame.

I'd like to add, not all of us will have this same level reason when coming to a game, but for myself personally, I come to enjoy myself. I come to wind down from the stresses of life as a whole, that be politics, hate, drama, medical related issues, to level my mind out to go back and continue enjoying the great aspects of life that it can offer and so many other reasons, and I'm aware so many of us do come to games like Torn to escape those aspects that do put weight on our shoulders.

So when I came across this situation as I was scrolling aimlessly through Torn, I came across a player who had bountied another player with the optional choice of adding "they are from Israel" as the description of why they chose to bounty this player. Generally speaking placing a bounty on a stranger isn't deemed to be an action of love. I'm aware we bounty friends and faction members in time of need, generally in their offline periods in war related events which can be a positive use of something that's generally not a loving action.

I didn't perceive the action of placing the bounty on a random player with that description as an act of love. So I read into what Torn has listed as their definition of discrimination. To my understanding and perception of what I believe discrimination is, I do believe that targetting someone with the negative action with the reasoning being their place of origin/birth is exactly that.

The staff member I spoke to, didn't see any issue with this situation at all and closed the thread without allowing me to grasp any understanding of what is an acceptable level of hate within the game and mentioned I should report again if I had any other issues relating to my original report.

So I did exactly that. It has now been 40 hours since my follow up report. I have since followed up 4 hours ago roughly to see if it has fallen through the cracks of the system just in case. I have yet to had a response. As a result I am here, attempting to see if it's my understanding is all wrong and that's why there isn't any communication at all.

I might be entirely wrong on my understanding of what I find acceptable. I may have too high of standards of attempting to treat everyone I can with kindness and compassion regardless of the situation and the majority of players might find I'm just ignorant and that's absolutely welcome.

I'm here asking you as players within the community of what you know and perceive discrimination to be as individuals. We all have different understandings of all aspects of life, and we're all allowed to be different and have different opinions which can oppose others opinions and beliefs and if they're not harming anyone emotionally, phsycially or mentally harming people with their beliefs or opinions than we should be allowed to be different.

If targetting someone for their ethnicity ingame isn't a bad thing, where is the fence/line which determines what's appropriate and what's not?

Please, share with me your thoughts. I'm not here to seek an argument with any person, I want you to be able to share yourself honestly without retribution from myself to any degree. I want to have a greater understanding of what everyone else's perception is and that isn't always the easiest thing to hear so I'm prepared for that.

Thank you for taking so much time out of your busy lives and your enjoyment periods within the game that you make time for everyday to even just read what I've had to say even if you don't wish to share any opinions. It's all greatly appreciated. Thank you kindly in advance.

Kind regards,
Grandpa :)

Hello, I'm a regular buyer of Donator Packs via PayPal. I've just bought 10 and I've been rewarded with 2 X 10 Donator Packs. Is this an accidental bug or a very generous sale? If this is a bug please remove 10 Donator Packs from my inventory or inform me of the next step :)

Grandpa :)

That's absolutely fantastic and nearly unbelievable other than I'm seeing it with my own eyes. Thank you very much :)

Gramps :)

I'm a little too deep into the game to be quitting now, but thank you for your suggestion ;)

It's not that I'm deeply offended, I'm confused by what levels of breaking the rules is acceptable within the game. We all have the same rules we all have to agree to and abide by, but is there movement and flexibility within the boundaries of these rules that exist?

If as you're sharing we're allowed to use slurs against individuals with disabilities, then there most definitely is a level of flexibility when it comes to the ingame rules.

And if I was to go door knocking for candy and they tricked me, I hope they wouldn't stab me or take all my candy. I'd imagine they'd do something funny? Stealing happiness/joy on a event isn't tricking in my opinion.

Bogie explained it could be discrimination if there was more to it than just the bounty and reason why but the facts that I provided alone wasn't sufficient evidence to support anything but what the staff and Bogie had shared with me. So that's completely understandable! I have no argument with that!

My understanding of discrimination was the collaboration of the bounty and the reasoning would be classified as discriminate alone, but since this forum has started I clearly see that the community as a whole doesn't see it the same way, and that's ok too because I wanted insight into others understanding which is why this.post was created.

I'm glad that you're talking to me! It provides both you and I something to do to pass the time plus it continuously gives me more insight :)

I'm not asking to sway your opinion, but when you are talking about the root of why this entire discussion is brought up being the basis of the word "Israel" which the only connection to it being any level of discrimination in my eyes is the fact alone they were using a generally negative action on a person while using someone's ethnicity or place of birth as the reason. It was irrelevant if it was Canada or Israel, Torn's definition of discrimination explains that discrimination is using ethnicity in a negative way. (Not a quote) is not appropriate, I just didn't know to what extent it wasn't appropriate!

I don't need to be right, but I appreciate you attempting to look at the big picture. All parties and opinions involved in this discussion. Everyone here I appreciate, even those who aren't being kind. It was never going to be a conversation I received love, gifts and friends from. I was probably going to receive a lot of dislike and that was accepted. It was attempting to find out information and perspective on the matter and how everyone felt regarding the topic.

Some have agreed, some see both sides and some told me to shove it, no one is wrong in their ability to share what they have done here. It was always open for discussion, but as people have ridiculed, called me out and openly suggested I'm lying, I'm happy to educate them on my own beliefs and they can oppose theirs just like they've opposed mine!

But in the end of the day, I've actually gotten exactly what I was looking for. A broad range of perspectives and understanding on the matter! So it's been a good conversation :)

Nex, you're a wizard. Keep it up and one day you'll be a senior wizard and we'll have a duel in the retirement village!

I've been in the shadows just playing the slow game to every extent, I'm a nobody with zero connections and practically a life on the forums which never existed. I've never had a single interaction with Bogie until this post to my recollection!

Nex, you're a wizard and can see the past and the future from my perspective. You're so very strong on that, I would love to see an example of me openly witnessing what I believed was discrimination and I allowed it to happen without saying a word?
There isn't a single case of it ever happening, this is my first interaction I've seen of such a manner and I spoke up.
How many times have you tried to do right by another player?

It just provides insight to people like myself of the existence of other players with the mentality as you're sharing. I would much rather be considerate, emphatic, sympathetic, encouraging, lifting, educating and loving others than to actively be hating on others for no benefit to yourself or the other party. If you and the majority wish to be exactly that, you're most definitely welcome too, it is your life to live and I won't get in your way, but in the same sense when your time comes when you need assistance from the people who can assist you, the way people treat others will be evident.

I think you're mistaken :)

That's a really sad story. They're fully committed to their interests and love, I give them that!

When someone clearly states the reason of their actions with their own words and that reason being that person just being born in a certain country. How else do you interpret that? Plus the use of the bounty which as we've all passed over isn't always a negative connotation but can be used as one alongside those words, there isn't too many logical explanations for two individuals who aren't in the same company or faction.
There could be other reasons, you and I are unaware of. That certainly be the case, and as the staff explained, they also investigated the incident and I was hoping to get some insight because as Bogie explained, the player could of actually been breaking the rules if they had done ..... And so I just asked if those reasoning which could of lead to those actions being illegal were actually a part of the investigation that took place or was it just an assumption on their end as it was on mine?

Honestly, I don't know what most of that means but it sounds like a very strange mix of things that interest Bobby! I'm glad that Bobby has found some hobbies that don't actually hurt anyone and they find enjoyment from them xD

Why shouldn't an essay be posted if someone was hating on a entire group? If I had been aware of the hate towards the Chinese players within the community, I would of done the same thing?

How can brown shoes compare to hating and entire country or civilisation? Of course you can dislike my shoes, I don't even like the shoes I wear. I just get them because they're comfortable and handy at work xD

Personally, if someone was targetting me due to my place of birth and only that. It's absolutely ludicrous, but it's not the right thing to do by any extent. It doesn't matter which country you're born into, if that's someone's reason to hate you... It's very shallow. Israel, Palestine, Canada, Japan, China, Mexico, Australia, USA it doesn't matter where you're from. We shouldn't stereotype and hate on the entirety of a country and everyone in it because of ....?

Looking at the staff lists and responsibilities that was just provided, it doesn't appear to have any specific staff member on that list so I think you might be right about that!

This is great information, I appreciate you providing this to me! Thank you kindly :)

Empathy exists, not for all but for some humans :)

I am aware of that now because you've shared this with me, but prior to this I've never once contacted a staff member personally so it's not a thought that comes to mind and I didn't also have the knowledge of whom to contact even if I had that thought to do so!