Fotismeni: forum

TL:DR Union?

Hello and welcome! My two brain cells have produced a brainwave!

So recently I caught sight of something that I never noticed before and that is the allow/disallow exchanges option in the enemies list which allows you to block the players on your enemies list from buy your listings on the bazaar, item market, points market and etc.

Now it doesn't take a genius to guess why that's an option, it's there so traders can block buy-muggers.

So for the 1st time since I joined this game I started using my enemies list to block buy/stalk-muggers who mugged me personally or a friend/faction/etc.

I also noticed that some bazaars have the message "buy-muggers will be blacklisted" so I copied it in hopes of discouraging buy-mugging but it didn't seem to do much.

Now before one of you says "you can do x and y to prevent buy/stalk-mugging" I'm fully aware of all that can be done to prevent buy-mugging, such as closing my bazaar, not using trade chat, using the wrong blood bag to send myself to the hospital and joining a 7 star clothing store for the mug protection.

Sadly, all of these solutions come at the expense of the trader, except blacklisting, it is the only buy-mugging protection that comes at the expense of the buy-mugger not the trader.

However, as I already said it doesn't seem to be effective and no wonder! I doubt any buy-muggers are going to cry over losing access to my small and shitty bazaar and I think the same applies to any other bazaar that brandish the same threat.

But what if instead losing to access to a single bazaar they lost access to a multitude of bazaars?

I had this idea while on the shitter wondering if it's true that if one casino in Las Vegas bans you every casino will.

So that's my brainwave! A union among merchants! If one of us gets buy-mugged we all blacklist the buy-mugger!

The concept is simple:

1: You join our discord.

2. You share the Torn un-stealthed attack log of you getting mugged.

3. We all blacklist whoever mugged you.

The union is simply a discord where merchants share such info.

But It'll also be a badge and a banner that can deter potential muggers! As they have to consider if the money gained is worth losing access to a large market if they get caught.

I know Torn players are somewhat phobic of new ideas, but let's be clear here, merchants already share their blacklists! This will only be a discord where they can do what they already do, with confirmable evidence of course, and a badge to hopefully deter potential buy-muggers.

It is too early to say, we do not know who the Democratic candidate is. :/


But there seems to be quite a bit of Democratic candidates that are more promising than current president Donald J. Trump, such as Bernie Sanders.


I am not an American citizen so i have no voting power, i just hope whoever you choose would not drop a bomb on Alexandria.

Oh no you misunderstood! it will be based purely on unstealthed attack logs!

So lets say person A buys from me and then person B mugs me, I'll then blacklist person B not person A.

Did you read the post?

"Now before one of you says "you can do x and y to prevent buy-mugging" I'm fully aware of all that can be done to prevent buy-mugging, such as closing my bazaar, not using trade chat, using the wrong blood bag to send myself to the hospital and joining a 7 star clothing store for the mug protection.

Sadly, all of these solutions come at the expense of the trader, except blacklisting, it is the only buy-mugging protection that comes at the expense of the buy-mugger not the trader."

For example setting up a ghost trade isn't possible when the buy-mugging happens in my bazaar or on the points market.

Self-hosping doesn't last long enough.

Leaving my law firm for a 7 star clothing store would inconvenience me.

And closing my bazaar and removing my points when I'm offline wouldn't be possible since I'm away most of the time and I don't want to lose customers or sacrifice my profits.

And etc.

But most important of all is that all of these solutions come at my expense, blacklisting doesn't.

Wish granted, but is the money truly worth it?

Will it follow you to your grave?

Will anything you do in life really matter when you are inevitably going to die anyway?

Will the people's memory of you truly immortalize you, when those who remember you are themselves mortals?

Do i truly need to corrupt this wish?

Will a pancake still be called a pancake if it is made in a skillet? or will it be a called a skilletcake?

 

I wish i could spell the name "Soren Kierkegaard" correctly, i always say it in a weird way. :D

Alright boys case closed! Union bad!

Now, cartel?

That's it boys! I'll make the TCMU Torn's version of the OPEC!

No you post the link itself XD, like this:

https://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=ea2055987420558cebb5d7386c02d487

To be fair I was made aware of stalk-muggers and their bots after I made the original post.

My idea would technically work against buy-muggers but not stalk-mugger.

Oh well I never get any good ideas whilst I'm in the shitter, those come from the shower. :P

I think I'll continue the idea with my merchant friends and see where it goes from there.

I hear you man, and I read and replied to every reply here because your time and effort bearing with my nonsense is appreciated.

Well aside from the couple of fellas being assholes for no reason. :P

Thanks for sticking around this long man.

Bro read my reply. :D

Why are half of these replies helpful and polite and the other half rude and salty?

Yea my bad, what I mean here is if you get buy-mugged you link the attack log, not a screenshot but the log like Beerson just did.

Now the real problem is stalk-muggers and their bots, they complicate things.

Well like I said I'd need an attack log of you getting mugged after selling something.

"As SirJux put it nicely, you're a trader, it's your sole responsibility to not get mugged."

Exactly! And blacklisting is a feature of the game to prevent buy/stalk-mugging just like self-hosping and working in a clothing store! It's not like I'm cheating the system or anything! And if I wish to share my list with other traders or vice-versa is there anything wrong with that?

If anything it's stalk-muggers using bots that are bending the rules here. :P

"Apart from that, I have been accused of buymugging before in a time where my last trade was 40 minutes ago and I had already been hosped for approx 60 minutes"

I swear man I'll do my best to prevent false positives.

I'm not asking for mugging to be removed, merchants have blacklists of buy-muggers and sometimes they share it with one another, the union is just a discord for that.

"I do want to point out that there are certain factions that are using API scripts/bots to auto mug. I’m not sure how that is allowed. When there are numerous attempts that I’ve seen alone where people from this factions either join/start at the same second. Once, maybe twice I can understand.. but it’s been more than that."

I agree, I thought bots were against the rules of this game so this just seems odd to me.

You make a good point about buy-mugging teams. I guess we'll have to make the tough decision to ban customers who get followed up by a script-mugger to protect ourselves fully against buy/stalk-mugging teams or refrain from doing so and only grant ourselves limited protection.

Honestly this whole script-mugging business is bullshit.

"it would require 100% of the torn non-mugging community to follow this"

That, my friend, is literally the textbook definition of a union, I mean you don't need exactly 100% but you definitely need a significant number of members to have any sort of sway both in a real life union and in this Torn union.

Regardless I don't think you understand that I'm aware of and use every trick regarding trading aside from maybe working in a clothing store which I can't because I'm farming busts in a law firm.

I don't imagine this union will remove all threat and allow merchants to basically walk with a ton of money like a idiots.

Rather I imagine it will act as a layer of defense, that's all.

"There is a ton of other stuff wrong with this idea, but this is the main thing I didn't see already mentioned in a way I like by anyone else."

Please share with me then mate.

Well yea, read my original post, I only recently discovered the allow/disallow exchanges feature and I never really had beef with anyone so I never used it.

But now that I know about the blacklisting feature I plan to use it more.

And what about you? Wanna join?

It is you, not I, who initiated this streak of empty insults! But I will be the one to end it.

Say what you will but I will not entertain your nonsense anymore.

Say something useful, related to the subject and speak in a polite manner and maybe then we can talk.

Callaghan? Your name looks familiar.

Yea there are some salty buy/stalk-muggers here. :P

I'll mail you an invite soon.

"no, he was being sarcastic and overestimating your intelligence"

I was being sarcastic as well you uncouth troglodyte.

"actually they are efficient but require a certain level of activity"

Not all of us play this game 24-7, some of us have actual lives, studying and jobs.

why self hosp? pay a friend a can and get them to hosp you, and if you cant be bothered to log in thats no ones fault except yours
ref.. skill issue

See above, a hosp from a friend last 5 hours-ish, but my job is 8 hours!

You know what that is son? A job? It's what your mommy does to buy Doritos for you.

"see above"

See above.

"your idea naive and full of holes and potential exploits."

The other players have been actually sociable and helpful, they pointed out certain flaws in my idea and I adjusted it accordingly.

You, on the other hand, are impolite and empty-headed.

"bottom line is that it seems you cant be bothered to change your routine or increase your activity but you still want the gains
again

SKILL ISSUE"

Bottom line is: Touch grass and learn some grammar.

25 points for +10 enemies isn’t really that expensive for rich merchants, so far I have more than 250 spots, but if you're a low net worth merchant then I'll provide you with my own points if I must.

Yes I'm aware of stalk-mugging, that's why the union demands an un-stealthed attack log as evidence, to prevent innocents from being blacklisted.

Example:

Person A buys something.

Person B mugs with their bot.

If the attack is stealthed you might suspect person A mugged you but person A is actually innocent! Hence why we demand an un-stealthed attack log as evidence.

"but how would you get those people on board?"

Your incentives to join the Union are 1. You will get info on buy/stalk-muggers with evidence and 2. You'll also get a badge and a banner that can deter potential muggers! As they have to consider if the money gained is worth losing access to a large market of merchants if they get caught.

"why couldn't they exploit a market? If they decide they want to up the price or decrease it i think it's a possible issue that could happen too"

So basically you're worried the union will turn into a cartel?

Well I can tell you that it is my intention to form a union not a cartel.

But if any traders do decide to form one I can not stop them, in fact I reckon there are rich traders that already do that!

Whether you like it or not, cartels exist both in Torn and IRL, for example look up the OPEC.

"While i like the idea of a discord server mostly based on trading where traders can share info about buy-muggers and what not"

I'll send you an invite once the discord is set up.

You wanna start a cartel?! like the OPEC? XD

"That said, I don't _need_ this union per se, I have over 100 muggers already on my enemy list. When someone mugs me (yes, it happens), I simply add them to the list, hoping it will lessen a mug or two in the future. Lots of people I also removed from the list after few years when they asked me to nicely."

I mean the union is basically a discord where you can share that list but with attack logs as evidence.

Merchants already share their blacklists with one another so having a discord is hardly different.