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19:51:59 - 08/02/23 KingLouisCLXXII initiated a trade with you titled "3k trains" [view]
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B

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I'm going to close my account tornradio [2851045] shortly because I don't like this game anymore.

I'm leaving a post here in the feded list thread in case somebody want to know the reason why my account was marked for deletion.


Three things I want to clearify:
1. All my networth is from buying DPs from Donator House. I never received any loaning or gifting from SMTH or anybody else. This is easy to prove by admins. I'm deleting my account with all my networth so no giveaway to SMTH or anybody else. I don't have much if any financial connection with SMTH before and when leaving.
2. My in-game spouse LeahMeow [2904301] is my RL girlfriend. I recently recruited her and DMed bogie saying she's my real life gf but currently living in another country and if it's ok I send her some start up money, and bogie said yes. I ended up directly sending her cash and items worth 580M which is her total networth. She's only playing because she wants to have fun with me and have another common topic with me. She is not that into this game herself as you can see her activity data. Now that I'm quit playing myself, I will talk to her and very likely she will also quit, so that would be the reason if her account is also marked for deletion. I'll ask her to also not send the 580M to anybody. We're able to provide photos, chat history, airline tickets, live video calls and anything else reasonable to SMTH leaders in case they are interested in seeing if we are indeed two person, in case our accounts somehow is under the scruteny of multi accusations in the future.

I disliked your post, not as a a response to "seeing their own groups being banned", but as a response to your way of threatening the whole family.

As members and leaders from SMTH have said, we have no sympathy towards cheaters and are trying to report suspicious members as we find. You said "SMTH have offered to share their legitimate workings and chats with me. However quite frankly that's entirely worthless to me". To me this sounds like we are doing our part to "working with staff". You could ignore our claims and workings, but at least some of us are trying.

You as an admin publicly flaming players that disliked your posts, and saying they disliked you because they are supportive of cheating or they benefited from illegitimately gained advantages, which is not true at least in my case, sounds personal to me. Thank you and keep up the good work on punishing actual cheating players.




14:05:26 - 16/04/23 Someone anonymously sent $1 to you with the message: Death to SMTH. f**k you multi coward
To the "anonymously" sender, you are the coward.

Just want to follow up with the second point real quick. Not trying to argue, just genuinely want to learn what are the better company options for noobs? Music Store is a good one I think. Other than that I don't know what are the shops that both accepting low ws players and provide equivalant of more than 4M gains.




11:29:27 - 16/04/23 Someone anonymously sent $1 to you with the message: stfu loser
Very helpful.

I'd like to share my views of several questions from your recent posts.

1. The company loan is an offer, not mandatory. A new player can decide for him/herself whether they want to apply for the loan.
2b in bank gives 4M per day, as long as the company makes them more than 4M per day(after loan interest), it's a win. As for how much exactly a PSF earns per day, we did maths earlier, there is no exact numbers because that various a lot based on how much they pay their employees and stars of the company, but more than 4M per day is not a stretch.
Just because you failed to succeed a bussiness, or you think people would fail a bussiness, does not mean there are no other people making great profits in the market. It's a free market. This appllies to other games and RL.

2. There is nothing wrong for a noob to be in a PSF. You mentioned noobs should be in companies than help gaining bs.
Firstly, a noob does not have enough ws to be in most high star companies, but directing a company does not have the ws limitation.
Secondly, if you think of candle shop that gives e, or shops that gives a percentage gain to gym trains, and measure their equivalent values by cans, it's not much higher than 4M per day or even less. The noob would receive the same ws gains if they want and more by directing a PSF.

3. There is nothing wrong for a noob to be in a RW faction.
Firstly, as said before, there are 7 SMTH factions, 3 of them almost never RW, 2 of them competitively RW, 2 of them in between and mostly farming losses for cache. A noob can choose how much RW they want according their own personal preference.
Secondly, the RW payout distrbution system in SMTH is generous and has new players in mind. I'm in a in-between faction, I get more than 10M per RW by making 0 hit and doing absolutely nothing in cache farming RWs. If you make a lot of hits or in a more competitive RW faction, you get much more(The 200k/hit number somebody mentioned above is wrong). You lose e regen in a competitve RW, but you earn them back and much more through RW payouts.

4. If ig_chen does not reply to your questions, please try quote his origenal post as he asked(Sorry if you've already done that in a previous post, this thread is too long to check).
As for your request of showing full details of loaning records. Firstly, I believe leadership already offered that to bogie but according to bogie "SMTH have offered to share their legitimate workings and chats with me... However quite frankly that's entirely worthless to me". Secondly, I as a member does not have access to the books, I'm not sure if this is too much to ask in a public forum. But we'll see how ig_chen decideds. Personally I'll be interested to see that too.

Thanks for sharing this.

I'd like to point out your link is to the Torn disscussion sub-forum. The actual recruitment thread is this.

You can see there are about 20 posts in the last 24 hours, and this thread has been going on for more than 3 years.
Players are rewarded 1M per day per post by making meaningfull Torn related posts in this thread.

NGA is one of the biggest if not the biggest gaming forum in Chinese, and bumping the recruitment thread everyday is effective.

The likely reasons of "the number of their members who have only ever been in SMTH factions is high":

1. SMTH is the only Chinese speaking family. Most players in SMTH are Chinese. Most of them don't speak fluent English.
2. You can't access Discord in China (unless with VPN).
3. SMTH has a good enough support system so members are not very motivated to leave.
4. People like to stick around with people with similar region and culture.

IMO those are more logical answers to the question, not cheating.

Adding those payment methods might come with some financial and legal burden to admins, not sure if they consider it worthwhile. But R+ from me since it would help me.

Many Mainland China players can't use the payment system, this is very true.

99% games(in fact 99% of everything including games) in China pays through ZhiFuBao or Wechat Pay, so every adult has that. But the Torn payment options, Paypal, Amazon Pay, Bitcoin, I don't think those services officially run bussiness in mainland China. People might need to use VPN to visit thier websites, and they might not be able to sign up for their services with mainland China identities. Another problem is, those services often only support VISA credit cards, not UnionPay credit cards which is the Chinese equivalent. The details may not be exact but I'm very sure most Chinese players don't have those payment methods on hand.

Anarchia really seems obsessed with this. He/she has a strong opinion, downvotes every single post we make, and tries to bash every post that is in support of SMTH or neutral.

I made posts here because we got threatened by a game admin and saw nasty comments towards SMTH from the community. I feel like this is what I have to do to let people know more about SMTH. Bogie said "SMTH have offered to share their legitimate workings and chats with me... However quite frankly that's entirely worthless to me", so that's that. But I'm still trying to provide information and make constructive disscussions here with the community, unfortunately not everybody want to hear, as expected.


Again with the fedded percentage, thanks to CRLF we have the data. SMTH - Main indeed has an alarmingly high percentage. Some people f*cked up back then, I have no sympathy or excuses for them. But I want to point out, from my understanding, SMTH - Main is sort of a retirement faction nowadays, and is relatively inactive. And I believe we know better now, because if you look at the data of the 6 other factions, or 7 factions as a whole, SMTH has an average feedded percentage, not significantly higher than many other big faction names.

And the playing time comparison, personally I don't think it could prove anything one way or another, certainly not with only several data points.

You can check his/her RW history, the screenshot looks geniune to me.

A bot don't chat, true.
A player who don't chat is a bot, false.

In my experience, 20% people do 80% of the talk, not only in Torn, but also in other games, in schools, in work spaces, etc. Your faction has 60 people, I won't be surprised if half of them don't talk much but they do login and do things everyday, even participate in RWs.

Judging a player by how much they talk indeed could be one effective way to decide whether he/she is a bot, but it's not that simple and obvious as you suggest. I agree it's a good idea somebody should do a filter list of people who never talk in chat groups and try to analyse if they are legit now that SMTH leaders is threatened and has the burden to find more cheater, but I don't know whether they've done something like this, nor I'm in no position to tell them what they should do. Also to find out who talked how much across of dozen of chat groups, thousands of accounts, and years of history could be extremely tedios or impossible. (Edit: ig_chen just said above "we can start doing this screening and start reporting those suspicious ones.")


And to people saying all or most SMTH players act according to a to-do list everyday, that's again not the fact. How many players average 3 Xanax per day across SMTH factions, how does the percentage compare to other factions, how many PSF directors are there across all SMTH factions. Do these researches yourself or look for existing data, you can raise questions by actual data and facts, but saying it's "obvious" they are all acting according to a to-do list and they are all bots does not make sense.

This is your first RW in your life mate, you'll learn that every competitve RW will be like this.
And with 600k stats making 5th most attacks in a Gold Rank RW says something about your faction's activity in this RW IMO. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't see a more active opponent in war and immediately come to the conclusion that they must be cheating.

I don't agree with you but this shit is pretty funny lol.

Thanks CRLF.
I removed factions that have total members under 500, and sorted by fedded percentage.

[image: i.imgur.com]


[image: i.imgur.com]

[image: i.imgur.com]


Two other SMTH factions that are not in the list because of less of 500 total members:
SMTH - Silver Hand 393 17 4.3
SMTH - Main 278 28 10.1

I'm making one last post here and I'll stop.

It's not true that people in SMTH make phone calls to wake people up to take a Xanax. IIRC, somebody said that earlier in this thread, but he/she is not in SMTH and he/she was making a sarcasm comment. No offence but people need to fact check or think for themselves before they believe something just because somebody else said something.

From my limited experience in SMTH, the only instance I saw a SMTH leader trying to reach a member by phone call, is during the Silver Hand RW. Silver Hand was trying their best to be the first SMTH faction to reach Diamond rank, and that was an extremely intense war. They were trying to reach a member to make him/her self hosp. And I don't think they found his/her phone number in the end, the member endded up getting online him/herself and self hosp in time before hosp release.



Another thing that I see people accuse again and again in the threads is, players in SMTH during RW get online or offline together, self hosp minutes before hosp release, make pushes together, they are too coordinated, they must be multies!

Firstly, these are RW basics that every competitive RW player should know and should do. Leaders would make decisions and ask members in group chats to turtle during certain times, and get online to push at certain times. Players can set up alarm clocks or API based tools to remind them to self hosp certain minutes before hosp release. These are not rocket science.
SMTH as a family has multiple factions, some of them never or rarely RW, some actively RW, some in between. For players that are unwilling or unable to actively participate in RWs, they would be in those peace factions. On the other hand, those in RW factions are more competitve players. Generally speaking, players can move between SMTH family factions freely. So don't be surprised if you encounter an RW SMTH faction and most players are active.

Secondly, I don't think players in SMTH actually get online / self hosp etc. together in batches that is too accurate to be normal. Again, no offence, but I think many people are saying and agreeing with this claim without factual bases. SMTH are better than us in the war, so they must be cheating!
I'm sure there are players expirienced with APIs, Torn detectives, and people eager to prove SMTH wrong. I challenge you to come up with more detailed data, to show how impossible SMTH players behave, compared to other factions with similar RW characteristics. Some say SMTH all offline all day and all suddenly come online within seconds during RW, well, show us the data. I'm very interested to see this, I'll be very glad even if you can prove me wrong so that I'll adjust my views based on data and facts.

Thanks.

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Currently, a 9 or 8 star PSF makes about 300M per week or 43M per day.

[image: i.imgur.com]

If you pay average 2M per day to each of your 15 employees, that's 13M per day profit.

For a 2.5b investment, 13M per day is great profit compare to other investment methods. This leaves valid profit margin for both the company director and the fund loaner (if there is one).

PSF is the most popular company in the last year according to the newspaper article on Employees's day this year. Why? Because it's profitable. ig_chen was one of the first players to realize this, and made guides to teach other SMTH members to do so. Why many SMTH choose to direct a PSF? Because they choose the company that they believe it's the most profitable, like most people would do.


And to answer the question why those SMTH PSF owners often hire employees outside SMTH, because it's not easy to find a member that has enough ws and willing to receive low daily pay. They can choose to direct their own company, or work for other companies for different specials. Ambitious directors spend a lot of time recruiting, trying to find high ws and low pay employees to maximize their profit.




09:49:27 - 14/04/23 Someone anonymously sent $1 to you with the message: cheating filth
That's nice.

Question for CRLF, does the "total number of UNIQUE players who have been SMTH members is 1,707" include all Torn history, or just recent several years? Thanks.

Also, SMTH might have bought to upgrade faction shells during the years, I'm not sure has this been accounted for.

Not trying to speak for CRLF or ig_chen, please see their answers.

Interesting question. I'm here posting some more heavily censored screenshots again lol. These again won't prove anyone's innocence, just trying to answering some questions and let people who are interested know a little more of SMTH.


Here is one of SMTH's QQ chat group that specificly for new player Q&A.
On the top right cornor you can see the group announcement says there is a new player giving out worth 70M starts from June 2022, and multiple account is strictly prohibited in this game.
Below that shows the number of members in this group. I'm not sure that means 121 people in the group, or 121 people currently online with 274 people total.

[image: i.imgur.com]


Here I search the key word "shared renting" in the chat history.
Even though this is only one of many SMTH QQ chat groups, and I'm only using one key word for the search, you can see there are frequent disscussions about shared renting. The "shared cornor", which is a online editable sheet for finding roommates in SMTH, is often mentioned.
There are only a total of 82 messages found for this search, it's because I only recently joined this group, and I can't search previous messages.

[image: i.imgur.com]
[image: i.imgur.com]


Here is the "shared renting cornor".
There are only a few items here, becaused successfully paired couples would be removed from this page, and players don't neccessarly go through this document to find a roommate, they can just chat in QQ groups or in private.

[image: i.imgur.com]



Let's see an individule example. In your list, start with the first line. I didn't find chat history for Lesilver, maybe he/she is not in QQ or maybe I used wrong search keyword. But I did find chat history about Delrdige.
In the first screenshot you can see there were other people guiding Delrdige, including suggesting him/she to checkout the "shared renting cornor" and rent a PI.
In the second screenshot you can see Delrdige were asking some noob questions, including questions about his/her newly rented PI.

[image: i.imgur.com]
[image: i.imgur.com]



Also, I'm sure finding a roommate and renting a PI are in our numerous new players guides.



Hope this answers your question. Thanks.