Systoned: forum

A climb from Newbie Corner to Oligarch

Note: Thanks to @prox for the initial idea and I think someone else has attempted this too.

Also huge thanks to the beta testers who have been great is squashing bugs and suggesting ideas to make the challenge even better.

A climbing challenge for Torn poker. Start at the cheapest table (Newbie Corner) in the game and work your way up to Oligarch, one table at a time, using only money you win at the tables.

This is not a timed event, you play at your own pace. Everything is tracked for you: sign in once and every visit to the page pulls your latest poker sessions from the Torn API and works out your progress.

The rules of the ladder:

• Everyone starts at Newbie Corner with a max buy-in of $2,000.
• Your position on the ladder is a table. Only sessions played at that table, or the one directly above it, count towards your climb.
• You climb by taking a seat. When your bankroll covers the next table's buy-in, sit down there and that becomes your new position. One table per step: winning a huge pot doesn't skip you ahead, you still have to play your way through every table.
• Your ladder bankroll is table winnings only, and every counted buy-in has to fit inside it. Outside money never enters the ladder.
• Playing outside the rules doesn't punish you. Those sessions are simply ignored, so your normal games can carry on alongside the climb.
• Cash out below your table's minimum and you bust down to the highest table you can still afford. Drop below $500 and your run is over. Buy back in at Newbie Corner to start the next one.

How to join:

1. Go to this webpage and click sign in.

2. You'll be prompted to create a custom APi Key. Do that then use that to log in. The key can read only your poker log, your name, and your avatar. Nothing else.

3. Paste the key in and play. Your climb starts from sign-up, old poker history doesn't count.

Each person in the ladder has their own profile page to track their progress.

The global leaderboard shows a range of stats across everyone playing.

FAQ

Q: Do I need to manually paste my logs or report results?

A: No. Nothing is reported by hand. The site reads your poker log through the Torn API and scores your sessions itself. Sign in once and it updates every time you open the page.

Q: Do I need to keep my ladder money separate from my other cash?

A: No. Your ladder bankroll is tracked by the site, not by where your money sits in Torn. Spend or bank your cash however you like. The only rule is that a ladder buy-in has to fit inside your ladder bankroll when you sit down.

Q: Is there a prize for reaching the top?

A: No prize, the challenge rewards itself. Sitting down at Oligarch means you turned a $2,000 buy-in into a $5,000,000,000 bankroll using nothing but poker skills. That's the flex.

Q: Is my API key safe?

A: The pre-filled key form only grants access to your poker log, name, and avatar, nothing else. The key is saved in your own browser so you stay signed in, and it's sent only with your own requests. The server uses it to read your poker log and never stores it.

Q: Do I have to give up my normal games?

A: No. Sessions that don't fit the ladder rules are simply ignored, they never count for or against you. If you want to grind your usual tables for a while, you can also hit Pause ladder on your profile. Play during a pause is skipped, and you resume whenever you like.

Q: Does my old poker history count?

A: No. Your climb starts the moment you sign up.

Q: What happens when I go broke?

A: Dropping below $500 ends your run. Buy back in at Newbie Corner and a fresh run starts. Your profile keeps the history of every run.

Q: Can i play at any table? 

A: No. You can only play at the table you're at on the ladder, if you have enough bankroll to move up and choose to do so, the lower tables are now no longer eligible for you unless you lose at those tables. 

Q: What if i lose at the table but i don't hit zero bankroll?

A: Then you'll be able to play at the highest table your bank roll affords you. 

Q: Can I quit and remove my data?

A: Yes. Your profile has a Delete my data button that removes your player and every session. Your Torn account is untouched, and you can revoke the API key in Torn at any time.

Q: My data didn't auto update

A: If it doesn't auto update, click the sync button on your profile, if that still doesn't work, then it might've been an non-eligible table. Any issues, please use the help button on your profile. 

Full terms of how your api and data are used can be found here.

Hopefully see you on the ladder.

Frenzy26 has spent the last few weeks telling anyone who will listen to him that Torn poker algorithm targets him. His account:

he is too good, the game has decided he cannot win, the board pairs or runs out a flush to beat him, and when he does get a hand the table folds.

Receipt post 1 

receipt post 2

receipt post 3

This is not a pile-on. He spends a lot of time telling everyone how good he is and how bad they are, and with that level of conviction a tiny part of me wondered whether there was something in it. So I pulled the data.

For context, the Torn poker community is supportive of its own. People play against each other at the tables, and when someone posts about a downswing the replies are offers to go through hands, point out leaks and talk through the spots. That happened across several of his threads. Players explained why a conspiracy against one account makes no sense, offered to play him heads up so he could show it happening, and asked for hand histories. His reply to each of them was that they are shit at poker and that any hand they win is fed to them.

I have 248 shared hands with him. Below is what those hands show, with two of his own hands walked through in full.

A note on sample size

248 hands is a small sample and the percentages will move with more data. The sample only covers hands where I was at the table, so some figures, VPIP in particular, run lower here than his overall play. The pattern the hands describe, limp in, call raises, check to the river and bet when a hand is made, will be familiar to anyone who has sat at a table with him. If your experience differs, post it.

The numbers

Raises are 3% of all his actions. Of 116 losses, 94 are small.

What the stats describe

VPIP 42% with PFR 4% means he enters two hands in five and raises about one in ten of those. He limps in, calls raises, checks the flop, checks the turn, and bets the river when he has made a hand. That is the pattern in every street breakdown.

Preflop: fold 45%, call 42%, raise 5%.
Flop: check 43%, fold 27%, bet 11%.
Turn: check 40%, bet 21%.
River: bet 33%, his highest bet rate on any street.

By position: 108 hands from UTG through HJ, 8 wins. 138 hands from CO through BB, 26 wins.

By showdown hand type: suited connectors 11, connectors 9, ace-rag 7, broadway 7, pocket pairs 4, suited 2, offsuit trash 3.

By made hand at showdown: high card -17M, pair -23M, two pair -107M, trips +52M, flush +18M, full house +13M.

His claims, one at a time (copied verbatim)

"See the flop cheap, then decide"

This is the strategy the stats describe. The cost is the 94 small losses: limp, call a raise, miss, fold. At an average of 2.5M per loss, 116 losses cost 290M. 34 wins at 5.9M return 200M. The gap is the flop-viewing fee.

"It doesn't matter what two cards you hold"

From early position he has played 108 hands and won 8. Two random cards in a five-way pot against a raise win at about that rate.

"Whatever hand I get, someone has me beat"

Two things in the data produce this experience. He plays 42% of the hands in this sample, and the sample only covers hands where I was at the table. Against the wider field the figure is above 60%. Either way his average hand at showdown is weaker than that of a player who enters 20%.

He calls raises 50% of the time and goes to showdown with high card and one pair, which cost him 40M across the sample. He is seeing the winning hands he would have folded against.

"I flop two pair and lose"

Two pair is a net loss of 107M. 72M of that is one hand, covered below. The remaining 35M fits the pattern of calling down with weak two pair on boards where it is beaten.

"The board pairs or runs out a flush to beat me"

The set hand below. A flush came in on the river. He priced it in himself on the turn.

"I'd win too much"

Trips, flush and full house are +83M combined. When he holds a strong hand he gets paid, because he plays the same passive line with everything and people call him. The losing categories are high card, pair and two pair. That is the result of calling with weak hands. Card distribution has no part in it.

Hand 1: the 73M loss

• Frenzy26 limps 4s7s from early middle position, five players see a raise to 2.3M from Timo7432, Frenzy26 calls.
• Flop 10d 7c 5c. Checked to Frenzy26, who bets 1M into 15M with bottom pair. Timo7432 raises to 5.9M. Everyone else folds. Frenzy26 calls with bottom pair and a gutshot.
• Turn 4d. Frenzy26 checks. Timo7432 bets 17.6M. Frenzy26 check-raises all in for 64.8M with sevens and fours. Timo7432 calls with 5d5h.
• Showdown: set of fives beats two pair. Timo7432 wins 153.2M.
  
  

What happened: the flop raise from a preflop raiser on 10-7-5 against four players is sets and overpairs. Sevens and fours is bottom two pair from a hand that only ever makes bottom two pair. The set was there from the flop. Nothing on the turn or river changed the outcome.

Hand 2: the set that let the flush in

• Frenzy26 calls a raise to 750K with 2s2d, five players.
• Flop 9d 7s 2c. Bottom set, five-way, 3.75M in the pot. Everyone checks. A check here as a check-raise plan is defensible, but the preflop raiser checked through, so nothing came of it.
• Turn 8d. The board now has a flush draw and straight draws. Checked to Tony, who bets 1.5M into 3.75M with 7dQd, a pair and a flush draw. Frenzy26 calls. Tony gets 3.5:1 on a nine-out draw with a 40M stack behind.
• River Jd. The flush and the JT straight both come in. Frenzy26 bets 4.3M into 8.25M with bottom set into two callers who both continued on a draw-heavy turn. Tony calls with the flush and wins 17.3M.
  
  
  What happened: a turn raise to around 6M takes the pot or charges the draw. The turn call was the moment the flush was allowed in. The river bet added 4.3M to the loss.

Check the flop. Check or call the turn. Bet the river with the hand made on the flop, without adjusting for what the board has done since. In Hand 1 the raise came from two pair into an obvious set. In Hand 2 the bet came from a set into a completed flush. Both losses came from his own decisions on the turn and river.

248 hands. 23% win rate. 42% VPIP with 4% PFR. His biggest loss came from raising bottom two pair into a set. His set lost to a flush he priced in. The algorithm he describes is a limp-call-check-bet-river strategy, running as designed.

i leave with you bogie's accurate words 

Caveat

In writing this, I am not claiming to be a poker genius. I know the theory and best practice to a reasonably high level, but I have leaks of my own, and the play money aspect of the game overrides my judgement often enough that I make questionable plays. Analysed the way I have analysed his, plenty of my own hands would not come out well either.

The point of this post is to check whether the losing pattern he describes is a conspiracy against him or, as I suspect, a direct result of how he plays.

As poker become more popular, it's often the case that the tables get full super quickly. What doesn't help is having to scan through the noise of tables you're not interested in. SCRIPT LINK

Too broke for the big boy tables? No worries, just filter them out.

Too rich for the broke boy tables? No worries, just filter them out.

BINGO TIME! 

Take a shot, or pray to a God of your choice (whichever helps you get through it)

PSA warning: you're either gonna be incredibly drunk or heavily religious by the end of reading one of these posts

there's a lot of "we" in this post......"me and my brother" "we decided" "we should"......... y'know it's one account per person right...

100% would be a vibe coded ai-user script.....

Also the OP clearly state. they were looking for a bot for their services, most likely within Discord, so unsure why you're offering to make a user script....

A moments silence for all the hands i definitely would've won during this harrowing time

probs good idea for everyone who was playing to self hosp 

you can play poker (any stakes) whilst in hospital already... not sure what you're looking for here 

wooooo glad to see you on the ladder friend! Proper bankroll management will take you far! 

With the number of vault thieves and scammers going around, it is strange how little due diligence people do before trading with someone or letting them into a faction. This script does the checking for you.

Link

What it is

A Tampermonkey script that highlights known vault thieves and scammers anywhere their name appears on Torn. Flagged names get a red outline, and a banner at the top of the page tells you who is flagged and why. Useful for traders, faction recruitment, company recruitment, or anyone dealing with players they do not know.

Where the info comes from

The list was put together by @Tarzan and @glemmy. It is a work in progress. As new vault thieves and scammers emerge I will add them to the list.

Only verified cases are added. Hearsay and opinions will not be considered until there is proof of someone's wrongdoing. If you have a case to add, message me with the ID and the evidence.

Where it works

Any page with a player link: profiles, trade page, bazaars, bounties, user lists, chat, forums, faction and company pages.

No API key, no external calls. The script only reads player IDs from links already on the page.

Link

Frenzy26 has spent the last few weeks telling anyone who will listen to him that Torn poker algorithm targets him. His account:

he is too good, the game has decided he cannot win, the board pairs or runs out a flush to beat him, and when he does get a hand the table folds.

Receipt post 1 

receipt post 2

receipt post 3

This is not a pile-on. He spends a lot of time telling everyone how good he is and how bad they are, and with that level of conviction a tiny part of me wondered whether there was something in it. So I pulled the data.

For context, the Torn poker community is supportive of its own. People play against each other at the tables, and when someone posts about a downswing the replies are offers to go through hands, point out leaks and talk through the spots. That happened across several of his threads. Players explained why a conspiracy against one account makes no sense, offered to play him heads up so he could show it happening, and asked for hand histories. His reply to each of them was that they are shit at poker and that any hand they win is fed to them.

I have 248 shared hands with him. Below is what those hands show, with two of his own hands walked through in full.

A note on sample size

248 hands is a small sample and the percentages will move with more data. The sample only covers hands where I was at the table, so some figures, VPIP in particular, run lower here than his overall play. The pattern the hands describe, limp in, call raises, check to the river and bet when a hand is made, will be familiar to anyone who has sat at a table with him. If your experience differs, post it.

The numbers

Raises are 3% of all his actions. Of 116 losses, 94 are small.

What the stats describe

VPIP 42% with PFR 4% means he enters two hands in five and raises about one in ten of those. He limps in, calls raises, checks the flop, checks the turn, and bets the river when he has made a hand. That is the pattern in every street breakdown.

Preflop: fold 45%, call 42%, raise 5%.
Flop: check 43%, fold 27%, bet 11%.
Turn: check 40%, bet 21%.
River: bet 33%, his highest bet rate on any street.

By position: 108 hands from UTG through HJ, 8 wins. 138 hands from CO through BB, 26 wins.

By showdown hand type: suited connectors 11, connectors 9, ace-rag 7, broadway 7, pocket pairs 4, suited 2, offsuit trash 3.

By made hand at showdown: high card -17M, pair -23M, two pair -107M, trips +52M, flush +18M, full house +13M.

His claims, one at a time (copied verbatim)

"See the flop cheap, then decide"

This is the strategy the stats describe. The cost is the 94 small losses: limp, call a raise, miss, fold. At an average of 2.5M per loss, 116 losses cost 290M. 34 wins at 5.9M return 200M. The gap is the flop-viewing fee.

"It doesn't matter what two cards you hold"

From early position he has played 108 hands and won 8. Two random cards in a five-way pot against a raise win at about that rate.

"Whatever hand I get, someone has me beat"

Two things in the data produce this experience. He plays 42% of the hands in this sample, and the sample only covers hands where I was at the table. Against the wider field the figure is above 60%. Either way his average hand at showdown is weaker than that of a player who enters 20%.

He calls raises 50% of the time and goes to showdown with high card and one pair, which cost him 40M across the sample. He is seeing the winning hands he would have folded against.

"I flop two pair and lose"

Two pair is a net loss of 107M. 72M of that is one hand, covered below. The remaining 35M fits the pattern of calling down with weak two pair on boards where it is beaten.

"The board pairs or runs out a flush to beat me"

The set hand below. A flush came in on the river. He priced it in himself on the turn.

"I'd win too much"

Trips, flush and full house are +83M combined. When he holds a strong hand he gets paid, because he plays the same passive line with everything and people call him. The losing categories are high card, pair and two pair. That is the result of calling with weak hands. Card distribution has no part in it.

Hand 1: the 73M loss

• Frenzy26 limps 4s7s from early middle position, five players see a raise to 2.3M from Timo7432, Frenzy26 calls.
• Flop 10d 7c 5c. Checked to Frenzy26, who bets 1M into 15M with bottom pair. Timo7432 raises to 5.9M. Everyone else folds. Frenzy26 calls with bottom pair and a gutshot.
• Turn 4d. Frenzy26 checks. Timo7432 bets 17.6M. Frenzy26 check-raises all in for 64.8M with sevens and fours. Timo7432 calls with 5d5h.
• Showdown: set of fives beats two pair. Timo7432 wins 153.2M.
  
  

What happened: the flop raise from a preflop raiser on 10-7-5 against four players is sets and overpairs. Sevens and fours is bottom two pair from a hand that only ever makes bottom two pair. The set was there from the flop. Nothing on the turn or river changed the outcome.

Hand 2: the set that let the flush in

• Frenzy26 calls a raise to 750K with 2s2d, five players.
• Flop 9d 7s 2c. Bottom set, five-way, 3.75M in the pot. Everyone checks. A check here as a check-raise plan is defensible, but the preflop raiser checked through, so nothing came of it.
• Turn 8d. The board now has a flush draw and straight draws. Checked to Tony, who bets 1.5M into 3.75M with 7dQd, a pair and a flush draw. Frenzy26 calls. Tony gets 3.5:1 on a nine-out draw with a 40M stack behind.
• River Jd. The flush and the JT straight both come in. Frenzy26 bets 4.3M into 8.25M with bottom set into two callers who both continued on a draw-heavy turn. Tony calls with the flush and wins 17.3M.
  
  
  What happened: a turn raise to around 6M takes the pot or charges the draw. The turn call was the moment the flush was allowed in. The river bet added 4.3M to the loss.

Check the flop. Check or call the turn. Bet the river with the hand made on the flop, without adjusting for what the board has done since. In Hand 1 the raise came from two pair into an obvious set. In Hand 2 the bet came from a set into a completed flush. Both losses came from his own decisions on the turn and river.

248 hands. 23% win rate. 42% VPIP with 4% PFR. His biggest loss came from raising bottom two pair into a set. His set lost to a flush he priced in. The algorithm he describes is a limp-call-check-bet-river strategy, running as designed.

i leave with you bogie's accurate words 

Caveat

In writing this, I am not claiming to be a poker genius. I know the theory and best practice to a reasonably high level, but I have leaks of my own, and the play money aspect of the game overrides my judgement often enough that I make questionable plays. Analysed the way I have analysed his, plenty of my own hands would not come out well either.

The point of this post is to check whether the losing pattern he describes is a conspiracy against him or, as I suspect, a direct result of how he plays.

there's a lot of "we" in this post......"me and my brother" "we decided" "we should"......... y'know it's one account per person right...

BINGO TIME! 

Take a shot, or pray to a God of your choice (whichever helps you get through it)

PSA warning: you're either gonna be incredibly drunk or heavily religious by the end of reading one of these posts

we've had a couple of big player-run tournaments
https://www.systoned.cc/thuc/

https://www.systoned.cc/shootout/ 

both different formats but both super fun. 

There's also @proxima Torn series of poker coming up at some point (soon) so that'll be fun. Wont be buyins of that size though as it'll be open to every and all torn player to take part. 

Other than that, we were recently discussing running a bounty tournament but whether that happens before or after TSOP is yet to be decided! 

I'm in! 

Bump, two open slots. Apply today and get your jp ready for halloween! 

Come join in the fun at our pub. We have an opening for a new team member, we're 9 looking to reach 10 fairly soon.


If interested please reach out with your stats, EE merits and avg addiction points. 

Trains are currently sold, but looking into doing a hybrid of selling and rotational too. 


Great perks for halloween/other E jp 

10:01:17 - 17/08/26 You sent 746x Rope to -TITAN-

++ 10/10 super fast and easy to work with! 

I think your decisions across both hands were sound. Completely agree about the non-linear approach to the ladder, especially if your goal is to do it in one go without dropping down.

On the hands you shared, some of the justification around the decisions feels a little misaligned though.

Hand 1

You need 31% to break even and you put your equity at 33-35%, so that's a 2-4% edge. In a seven-way pot with two stacks already in the middle, some of your heart and broadway outs are probably dead in their ranges, so realistically it's thinner than that.

Risking 72% of your stack for a 2% edge is close to a fold at many tables regardless of the challenge.

Hand 2

I think the critical decision was the turn, not the river. You called 100 BB into a 16 BB pot with top pair and a flush draw, a 6x pot overbet call, and that's the loosest action across both hands. If the goal is survival, folding the turn means you never face the 1050 BB river decision. I'd have taken the check back on the flop too, so we agree there.

On the river read

Your whole approach is built on a field that calls with bottom pair and doesn't value the money, and I agree with that. But you also said the board-pairing card combined with the 1000+ BB shove biases his range towards full houses.

That reads to me as a player choosing sizing to represent something, and those two don't sit together. A pool loose enough to justify cutting all bluffs is loose enough to jam a set, a worse flush, or two pair that thinks it's good.

I found the tight, cheap-streets approach the right one at these stakes. I probably played a lot looser than you are right now, but I'd say that's a weakness of mine rather than a negative of your approach.

As I've got further up, my survival logic has kicked in more. My stack covers multiple buy-ins at each table though, so I'm giving myself a bit more flexibility with variance. Interested to see whether your approach alters as you move up. 

Looking forward to the next update!

23:41:36 - 11/08/26 You sent 469x Rope to -TITAN- with the message: rope

Super excited to follow along! 

That you can turn 2000 into 5,000,000,000....

Very easy to deal with. Super fast sale an a great price. 10/10