Coros: forum

Buying losses from low-stat attackers (sub 100k TOTAL stats)! 

Quick payouts during active service!

Contact me BEFORE starting the attacks, wait for my confirmation and start as youre able.

PAYOUT AND BONUSES:

• Every attack/loss = 250k per loss
• 5th loss = 150k extra
• 10th loss =  350k extra

Payout for 5 attacks = 2,650,000
Payout for 10 attacks = 3,000,000


Happy sellers:

20:15:26 - 10/08/25 You sent $4,000,000 to rambegoals with the message: Payout for 14 losses = 4mil
20:33:52 - 10/08/25 You sent $250,000 to xELITEx with the message: Payout for 1 loss = 250k
20:56:50 - 10/08/25 You sent $4,000,000 to Leoxgaming with the message: Payout for 14 losses = 4mil
21:08:02 - 10/08/25 You sent $1,650,000 to Goth_Sullus with the message: Payout for 6 losses = 1.65m
21:22:09 - 10/08/25 You sent $1,400,000 to Salidius with the message: Payout for 5 losses = 1.4m
22:09:07 - 10/08/25 You sent $3,000,000 to Big-W with the message: Payout for 10 losses = 3m
22:40:16 - 10/08/25 You sent $1,650,000 to Ak1raa with the message: Payout for 6 losses = 1.65m
22:46:04 - 10/08/25 You sent $1,500,000 to AlphaVader with the message: Payout for 10 losses = 3m
23:10:20 - 10/08/25 You sent $4,000,000 to IlkeshlI with the message: Payout for 14 losses = 4m
23:20:29 - 10/08/25 You sent $3,000,000 to Apekniboss with the message: Payout for 10 losses = 3m
23:39:10 - 10/08/25 You sent $2,150,000 to Diastaff with the message: Payout for 8 losses = 2.15m
11:52:14 - 11/08/25 You sent $1,650,000 to Ak1raa with the message: Payout for 6 losses = 1.65m
20:48:35 - 11/08/25 You sent $4,000,000 to rambegoals with the message: Payout for 14 losses = 4m
21:01:18 - 11/08/25 You sent $3,750,000 to Morrallada with the message: Payout for 13 losses = 3.75m
21:03:49 - 11/08/25 You sent $1,000,000 to Sourano with the message: Payout for 4 losses = 1m

14:49:47 - 12/08/25 You sent $4,000,000 to Ak1raa with the message: Payout for 14 losses = 4m
18:26:33 - 12/08/25 You sent $4,750,000 to FrugalWhorz with the message: Payout for 17 losses = 4.75m
22:54:34 - 12/08/25 You sent $4,500,000 to Ak1raa with the message: Payout for 16 losses = 4.5m
-22:58:12 - 12/08/25 You sent some Xanax to Ak1raa with the message: Bonus gift for reaching 50 losses sold!

After starting my Torn journey fairly casually, I very quickly realized about a week in, that I’ve become completely obsessed. When my account was 8 days old, I decided to take the game a bit more seriously and to set myself some specific, albeit very personal, goals. One of which was writing this forum post when I reach 100 days played so here goes, I guess.

This post details my story so far – the highs and the lows, the mistakes I think I made, what I would do differently if I could start over, some interesting (hopefully) stats and other general bullshittery. It’s my hope that this will be of some use to players starting out but I’m happy if you will just consider this an interesting read. Or hate it, I don’t know, I’m not your mother.

Battle Stats:

I’ve set two personal goals in my time played regarding Battle Stats. First was reaching 100k BSP at 30 days old, which I failed at, and the other was reaching 1m BSP at 100 days played, which… I also failed at, God damnit. Well, kind of. I reached 990k on day 99, so I decided to cheat a little and invest the few merit points I had into passive stat boots bringing my total a little over 1m. Lesson here being – when you first fail at something, try harder. When you fail again, cheat.

I started out Choco Jumping and swapped to happy jumping as soon as I was financially able to do so. Until day 50, I alternated between Choco Jumping and happy jumping as I couldn’t keep up with the costs associated with the happy jumps, stock investments and my crippling gambling addiction. When I finally felt more financially stable I swapped to consistent happy jumps and capped the whole experience off with a 99k jump on day 99, to celebrate and reach my set goal. My current plan regarding Battle Stats is to continue happy jumping until 350k-400k in each stat and then swap over to regular 3x Xan a day training.

A great guide to “jumping” is this one HERE

Networth:

In order to be fully transparent then I spent 100€ on donator packs when starting out and have been a monthly subscriber since early on. The continuation of the subscription will be the only future real cash “investment” (lol) as I don’t see the reason to swipe my card again.

So why did I spend money it in the first place? Honestly, I wanted to skip the “flying for plushies” part of everyone’s Torn journey because fuuuuuuuuuuuuck flying. It’s my humble opinion that a game mechanic, which actively makes you NOT play the game, is not something which I want to deal with. Jokes on me of course, as I still flew the short flights to get the associated merits.
Since I used to play a lot of poker in my twenties, I had a goal of trying my luck at the tables until I hit the maximum bank investment and then stop – the donator packs purchased at the beginning were my way of speeding that process along - seed money or such. I stopped actively playing poker once I reached that goal and have seldom played since:

As you can already tell, then nearly half of my NW has been from poker. Here’s my very rough and very estimated breakdown of my income:

• 2.2b from poker
• 705m from bought and sold donator packs
• 500-750m from item investments
  • Best earner of the category is just luck being online RIGHT on arson launch, having stockpiled gasoline and lighters and finding a bunch of unsold blankets in my inventory
  • Made a judgement call of buying a bunch of kegs even with very little experience of the Torn market and sold them right before Beer Day
  • A few very good AH purchases (and a bunch of bad ones) which luckily total into a net positive for now     
• 600m from supply pack gambling (Bulk of it is a really lucky melee cache opening and rest are mostly e-drink six-packs)
• 500m from ranked wars
• 500m from item trading/flipping
• 400m from bank and stock payouts
• 250m from travel
• 150m from mugging
• 100m from assorted gambling, mostly RR using the martingale system (its mathematically bad, don’t do it, I’ve gotten lucky)

Working Stats:

Stayed with one company who took me on early on and was willing to train me. Plan was to get to 4365 INT as fast as possible, without paying for trains a lot and then rush the Education career, which I’m doing now. Current goal is to focus on buying trains when I’m out of happy jumping range in order to not break the bank completely.
After education is finished I’m most likely either returning to my last company or attempt to find a 10* Pub willing to take me on with no pay and me paying for trains in order to speed up my crime progression. Speaking of which...

Crime:

I started out by following the recommended route of doing the crimes in order, while passively doing card skimming (set 20 skimmers in the bus station and forget) although I can definitely see the merit (pun intended) in spreading your nerve out in order to raise your natural nerve cap and gain merit points across the board a bit faster. As evident, then I’m focused on driving, as I chose between that and flying (Say it with me: “fuuuuuck flying”) for extra merits points are am still chasing a few I have yet to unlock. Currently focusing on shoplifting, passive skimming and alternating between pickpocketing/burglary when shoplifting notoriety is a little high.

The Good:

I think I made some good choices (although a lot more bad ones) which are worth mentioning, or at least offering my reasoning behind them.

• I focused on stocks with good dividends instead of rushing the 2b bank investment. This is most likely the most controversial choice but here was my logic: I would much rather have the dividends earlier than keep collecting money, which can’t be used and doesn’t return on its investment before it reaches 2b. I decided to go for stocks, which offered me a much faster return on their investment, especially considering that I didn’t have full bank merits early on. The stocks I went for are (in order of purchase): WSU, MCS, PRN, SYM, CBD, MCS 2, CBD 2
• Rushed as many merit points as possible, using YATA progression tracker and this guide HERE
• I can’t stress enough how important I find fast merit progression, the earlier you get them done, the earlier rest of progression gets easier.
• Found a great faction with great bonuses really early on. The faction bonuses are insane for early growth. Better the bonuses, faster the growth. If at all possible, aim for the highest respect faction willing to take on an active player, however bad your stats are and keep grinding.

The Bad:

There are many things I wish to have done differently but chances are you’ve stopped reading several paragraphs ago so I’ll keep it short-ish and list what I think were the biggest mistakes I made:

• Joining a company not suited for early game. In my case that was Property Brokers. I’m loyal to a fault and I stayed in the company for 90 (!) days, so 9/10 of my played time. The main reason was that the company owner is an incredibly great human being for taking me on in the first place and the free anonymous market listings actually helped me make bank and feel quite safe doing so. I also netted a free castle from the free random property action so that helped out a ton as well.
  Granted, it was hindering battle stats progression, so if I would do it all over again, I would first join a Music Store (for app 30 days when you know you’re constantly training) to unlock better gyms as fast as possible for even faster stat gains. Then I would swap to a 10* Adult Novelties, if anyone is willing to take you on (offer purchasing trains) and you have the funds. If accepted to one I would immediately look into selling 99k jumps to fund your own growth and make bank doing so. I honestly believe this is the best route for fastest growth. If, however, a 10* AN is not possible for any reason I would choose either a Sweet Shop, Candle Shop or a Toy Shop for income and training support.
  HERE'S a great guide in helping you make a choice.
• Swapping between factions early on. The 72h recruit status, where you have no active faction bonuses, is an absolute killer of early game progression. I swapped factions 3 times until my 4^th one, which means 9 days without perks. Choose a good faction with good bonuses and stick with it.
• Not focusing on flying. Ignoring flying is an objectively bad choice when you’re not willing to spend real life cash, get your initial funds by gambling or be funded in some other way. Even though I detest the mechanic with a strength of a thousand suns, it’s definitely the best consistent money maker in the early game. + there are many merit points locked behind it so it makes for a good choice in that regard as well.

Some interesting milestones:

• Day 50 – Racing class A reached. Proud of how fast I achieved this but the real props go to THIS guide 
• Day 64 – 2b in the bank finally achieved. As explained above, I could’ve achieved this earlier but decided to go another route
• Day 68 – 200 merit points. I had a personal goal of reaching 200 merit points on day 100 but very happy with how this one turned out. It’s also the only personal goal I set that I actually achieved :D
• Day 69 (nice) – A book appears in the mission store. Its “Ignorance is Bliss”. f**k. There’s no way I could’ve gotten the necessary 1800+ mission credits in order to buy this, which annoys me to high heavens, since I’ve perhaps skipped only a few missions and failed even less. The ONLY way I see this being achievable is if you’re employed at a 10* Private Security Firm really early on and start stacking credits. Or if you somehow come to massive pile of cash and invest into LOS stock super early (which is 800m at the time of me writing this so… good luck?). This one hurt bad. Still does.
• Day 98 – Started Education city job rush aka have 4365 INT. In my opinion, the most important education perk to get as early as possible as it can save YEARS off your education
• Day 99 – 1m BSP. Kinda.
• Day 100 - 228 awards! Not a milestone specifically but 2.28 merit points per day is a pretty decent result!

Special thanks:

• MrRightSA (and the entire leadership of my faction) - for accepting me into a great faction as a complete beginner, answering a bunch of stupid questions, being incredibly supportive and taking a chance with me.
• Vox – An amazing company owner who also took a chance on a nobody, while being an amazing human being
• Gamblerman – For being a great friend and moral support
• P6drak2rbes – What’s better than to finding someone from the same country as you completely randomly upon joining a faction you know nothing about? For the friendship and late-night chats.

All the guide makers. Without you the experience would’ve been a pain. Special mentions, who aren’t already linked above, to:

• Mug for his legendary guide
• Emforus for his Crimes 2.0 guides
• Baldr for his incredibly comprehensive new player guides which should be compulsory reading for everyone starting out

TL; DR

I played the game for 100 days. This is my story. I don’t know, man, just look at the pictures or something.

To all the muggers this post definitely attracts:

Good luck. Poker players, like me, get mugged A LOT but its tough to time it right, highest amount Ive lost to a mug is ~100k. My spare cash is in stocks and I use ghost trades. Maybe you’re the first to succeed but I’m a slippery bastard.

Attention!

This thread will be self-reported and therefore graved in a few days. It will currently stay up so people would know to withdraw their credit. 

Due to the announced rules change services like these will not be allowed to continue operating starting from October 1st. Specifics found here: https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=1&t=16605223&b=0&a=0 

If you have any outstanding credit left on the site please contact me so you can be paid out in full.

I will do my own pass of all players but I might miss you. Please remind me if you havent received your credit balance in a few days. 

[image: i.ibb.co]

There is a dimly lit kiosk somewhere in Torn City. The vendor looks miserable, the tickets cost $500,000, and the prizes happen to include actual real estate.

Welcome to Property Lotto, an independent Torn community scratcher where every winning ticket awards a Torn property!

PLAY HERE: https://nightshiftkiosk.com

WHAT IS PROPERTY LOTTO? 

Scratch the ticket and reveal three symbols. Three matching property symbols win that property! Prizes range from a Trailer all the way to a Fully Upgraded Private Island!

[image: i.ibb.co]

Won properties are placed in your Property Lotto wallet. From there, most properties can either be:

1. Requested for delivery as the actual property in Torn

2. Converted back into credit at the published conversion value (always more than selling to Estate Agency!)

HOW TO GET STARTED?

1. Visit https://nightshiftkiosk.com

2. Click SIGN IN and enter a Public Torn API key

3. Open your Wallet and check the current Xanax deposit rate

4. Send Xanax to Coros [3842864] with the word Scratch as the message

5. Wait for the automated deposit monitor to add your credit (shouldnt take more than a few minutes)

6. Return to the kiosk and start scratching tickets!

The Xanax rate is based on current Torn market pricing and can change over time. The live deposit and withdrawal rates are always shown on the website.

If you make a mistake during transfer, please contact Coros [3842864] in Torn

PRIZE ODDS

A chance of winning a property is 68.80%.

Every scratch is an independent random event. Earlier results, other players’ results and the total number of tickets sold do not affect your next ticket. Exact prize odds for each property can be checked on the site.

FAQ
 

IS IT RIGGED?

Results are selected on the server using a cryptographically secure random-number generator. The browser only displays the result already recorded by the server. Every paid scratch receives a unique permanent record containing its price, result, symbols and prize-table version. 

That said, this is a service with a house margin which is 7.76% under expected player behavior.

Lucky streaks can absolutely happen! During alpha testing, one player won two Private Islands in only 5 purchased tickets! House margin is a long-run mathematical expectations, not guaranteed results for any particular player or number of tickets. A short run can be considerably better or worse for either side.

WHAT ARE THE PLAY LIMITS?

Players can purchase between 1 and 100 tickets in a single order.

If you wish then you may also activate self-exclusion for a selected period of time (or indefinitely). Self-exclusion disables paid scratching but does not prevent access to the wallet, deposits, prize conversions or withdrawals.

WHY DOES THE SITE NEED MY API KEY?

Property Lotto uses a Public Only Torn API key solely to confirm your Torn ID and name and connect you to the correct Property Lotto account. The submitted key is not stored by Property Lotto and is not shared.

I WON A PROPERTY. WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

Open your Property Lotto wallet and choose which won properties you want to request. Once submitted, the property is reserved for delivery and can no longer be converted. Property claims are manually delivered in Torn within 24 hours.

[image: i.ibb.co]

CAN I WITHDRAW UNUSED CREDIT?

Yes. Available Property Lotto credit can be withdrawn as whole Xanax at the current withdrawal rate shown in the Wallet. The necessary credit is reserved when the request is confirmed. The Xanax is then manually sent in Torn within 24 hours.

WHAT IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG?

If you encounter a possible bug, incorrect balance, interrupted scratch or unexpected result, contact Coros [3842864] before using the affected credit or property. Depending on the severity of the bug, bug bounties may be offered.

A FINAL WORD

The vendor makes no promises. Sometimes the scratched metal reveals a Trailer. Sometimes it reveals an island. Most importantly, only play with what you are comfortable losing. Even more importantly, future scratchers are already planned and will include caches, boosters and supply packs!

Property Lotto

Operated by Coros [3842864]

P.S. Current website is built with computer users in mind, mobile view is still in the works but user feedback has reported that playing in landscape view and 80% zoom is fairly decent

PPS Property Lotto is not operated, sponsored or endorsed by Torn or its staff. Artwork, images and names all belong to their respective owners.

EDIT: Under the new rules change, coming into effect on October 1st, this thread would constitute as advertising a prohibited service. The giveaway will still happen on the announced date but after that this thread will be self-reported and therefore graved. 

To celebrate the launch of my Night Shift Kiosk, a property lottery, which I've spent way too long on and which so far has generated an amazing quarter of a billion deficit 🥲, I decided to add fuel to the fire and dig the hole im in even deeper!

Giveaway time! 

Stuff to be given away:

• 1x Donator Pack, chosen at random between all comments in this thread. Just reply to this thread to enter!
• 20x Xanax, given to the people whose comments make me laugh
• 10x 2m credit at Night Shift Kiosk to spend on scratcher tickets, given to the first 10 people who send me a DM and answer the question -  "What is the first thing the kiosk vendor said to the journalist?" (you dont have to guess. The
  • All claimed!

Giveaway ends on 25th of September, at 19:00 TCT. Winners will be added to this post.

Good luck!

Winners:

1x Donator Pack:

• 19:07:37 - 25/09/26 You sent a Donator Pack to NinjaNick1990 with the message: Giveaway winner!

26x Xanax:

• 10:32:01 - 23/09/26 You sent some Xanax to AliceZuberg with the message: Obligatory first comment reward
• 19:43:12 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to BossHars with the message: Giveaway!
  19:43:28 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to CaptCheddar with the message: Giveaway!
  19:43:41 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Zvasis with the message: Giveaway!
  19:43:53 - 25/09/26 You sent some Xanax to Ziblaz with the message: Giveaway!
  19:44:04 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Sillicis with the message: Giveaway!
  19:44:16 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to MojitosX with the message: Giveaway!
  19:44:27 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Sadme with the message: Giveaway!
  19:44:39 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to BoboEccles with the message: Giveaway!
  19:44:57 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to NorthernWind with the message: Giveaway!
  19:45:07 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Nealbilly with the message: Giveaway!
  19:45:17 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Ziroa with the message: Giveaway!
  19:45:28 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to POT75Y with the message: Giveaway!
  19:45:37 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Pehzudo with the message: Giveaway!

10x 2m credit:

• 4489931 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 07:00:20 UTC
• 3687848 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 07:30:13 UTC
• 4255049 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 08:31:34 UTC
• 4491838 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 08:54:53 UTC
• 4313204 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 10:02:40 UTC
• 4305718 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 11:24:19 UTC
• 4009740 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 19:31:34 UTC
• 4476829 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 23 Sept 2026, 20:17:42 UTC
• 4532731 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 24 Sept 2026, 03:53:17 UTC
• 4127823 - manual balance adjustment · amount 2,000,000 · 24 Sept 2026, 08:00:08 UTC

Buying losses from low-stat attackers (sub 100k TOTAL stats)! 

Quick payouts during active service!

Contact me BEFORE starting the attacks and wait for my confirmation

PAYOUT AND BONUSES:

• Every attack/loss = 300k per loss
• 10th loss =  250k extra

Payout for 10 attacks = 3,250,000

OLD THREAD for testimonials and proof of payments:  https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=59&t=16493641&b=0&a=0&start=0&to=26310743

Payments:

07:52:07 - 13/01/26 You sent $1,200,000 to Taymoney330 with the message: Payment for 4 losses
07:57:10 - 13/01/26 You sent $4,450,000 to Ivan_Akis with the message: Payment for 14 losses
08:38:10 - 13/01/26 You sent $1,800,000 to Ddhdhddhddh with the message: Payment for 6 losses
09:11:03 - 13/01/26 You sent $1,200,000 to KiraWantsPeace with the message: Payment for 4 losses
09:19:21 - 13/01/26 You sent $5,050,000 to Fronkk with the message: Payment for 16 losses
09:41:25 - 13/01/26 You sent $3,250,000 to Frieren with the message: Payment for 10 losses
10:06:21 - 13/01/26 You sent $3,250,000 to drathran with the message: Payment for 10 losses
10:30:13 - 13/01/26 You sent $1,200,000 to LeviLim with the message: Payment for 4 losses
11:10:05 - 13/01/26 You sent $4,150,000 to bolboreta with the message: Payment for 13 losses
13:09:32 - 13/01/26 You sent $7,100,000 to mjuliane with the message: Payment for 22 losses
13:27:59 - 13/01/26 You sent $6,500,000 to Astorius with the message: Payment for 20 attacks
13:34:06 - 13/01/26 You sent $2,100,000 to CMY1991 with the message: Payment for 7 losses
13:49:39 - 13/01/26 You sent $3,250,000 to Doomsauce with the message: Payment for 10 losses

UR

To all people who visited Night Shift Kiosk and played the Property Lotto - THANK YOU!

This thread will be self-reported and therefore graved today. If you still have outstanding properties in your wallet on the site, make sure to convert them so I can return any outstanding balance. This has to happen before September 30th!

Your positive feedback for the site and scratcher type lottery has been amazing to read and Im really happy you enjoyed what I built. Although the rules change is understandable it's unfortunate that we can't continue with it (and other scratchers that were planned).

I managed to give away countless of properties to lottery winners, along with a Private Island to one lucky player so even though short lived the site paid everything out in full to all who played. 

Again. Thank you for your support!

Thank you all for participating!

It's sad that the giveaway is coupled with the project shutting down so soon after launch but it is what it is.

Prizes have been delivered to all winners! What can I say, Im a sucker for a terrible pun and bad jokes so I sent everyone who made me chuckle something, which is a little more than I planned for.

DP winner was chosen randomly, gratz!:
19:07:37 - 25/09/26 You sent a Donator Pack to NinjaNick1990 with the message: Giveaway winner!

25x Xanax:
19:43:12 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to BossHars with the message: Giveaway!
19:43:28 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to CaptCheddar with the message: Giveaway!
19:43:41 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Zvasis with the message: Giveaway!
19:43:53 - 25/09/26 You sent some Xanax to Ziblaz with the message: Giveaway!
19:44:04 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Sillicis with the message: Giveaway!
19:44:16 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to MojitosX with the message: Giveaway!
19:44:27 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Sadme with the message: Giveaway!
19:44:39 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to BoboEccles with the message: Giveaway!
19:44:57 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to NorthernWind with the message: Giveaway!
19:45:07 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Nealbilly with the message: Giveaway!
19:45:17 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Ziroa with the message: Giveaway!
19:45:28 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to POT75Y with the message: Giveaway!
19:45:37 - 25/09/26 You sent 2x Xanax to Pehzudo with the message: Giveaway!

Thanks! We might not agree on the stuff on principle but im glad to hear you can look past the mechanics and just appreciate the look of it. Proud of it myself too 😅

Attention!

This thread will be self-reported and therefore graved in a few days. It will currently stay up so people would know to withdraw their credit. 

Due to the announced rules change services like these will not be allowed to continue operating starting from October 1st. Specifics found here: https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=1&t=16605223&b=0&a=0 . 

If you have any outstanding credit left on the site please contact me so you can be paid out in full.

I will do my own pass of all players but I might miss you. Please remind me if you havent received your credit balance in a few days. 

Disappointing but understandable. I honestly was fairly proud of what I built and made art for, but the updated ruling makes the distinction between allowed and prohibited services clear, and puts my earlier "why are payouts promotion" argument to rest - doesnt matter even if it would be.

But on the bright side many services people enjoy are still allowed so I guess thats a fine middle-ground. External betting sites taking bets for verifiable Torn events are still allowed so people who want to bet on Torn related outcomes (like who gets banned first under the new ruling) still have a place to go. Sucks I didnt build that instead.

Uppity up

Im not trying to be obtuse here but how can a giveaway be "verifiably by Torn" if a third party tool is used to generate a winning result for said giveaway? 

As far as I understand then you can do whatever you want with giveaways - no matter how you run them. Just as long entering the giveaway doesnt require a buy-in.

And so are Torn Poker and RR. But I guess your point is that Poker and RR in Torn are easier to police in that regard?

If you would actually take some time and read through my responses instead of spewing shit you would realize before writing this that its just not true. 
I have agreed with bogies reasoning on multiple counts, im in favour of banning advertising of said platforms on all torn-controlled channels and understand the general reasoning why theyre taking these steps. 

What I dont agree with is the earlier proposed wording that payouts from these sites = advertising (Not the case after bogie's clarification), stupid shit like statements that third party sites have no exclusion options (which some do) and that their odds legitimacy cant be checked, which absolutely can through implemented cryptographic commitment systems. 

Not once have I ignored "concerns" but asked for clarification and stated that proposed wording needs changing to cover the intended bases.
I know that theres a "no reading in Torn" meme but jfc.

And yes, I absolutely spent a very long time to create a site for personal profit. Stop acting like things you do arent for personal profit, its just our methods are different. And I also absolutely dont give a shit if it affects a million dollar company bottom line, and I find it odd you do. I do care about rules being clear and equally enforceable though, especially since Torn's track record has been shaky at best about them.

WOW, IS IT?! 

Where have I stated otherwise?

Doesnt make their statement less true.

*player operates a lottery site.

Solid response explaining your reasoning. 

"I don't like the idea of making peoples' casino bans public knowledge, people should not feel obligated to share that kind of information about themselves." is a bit nonsensical though. Making that status API callable doesnt make the status public. Your API documentation prohibits sharing that information when stored so it would be willingly given to a service operator and not "making it public".

No, you cant pull Torn self-exclusion status with an API currently, which is why many of these sites have opted for their own exclusion options, similar to Torn. But making this available to be called is not a difficult task. 

And again, full disclosure, which Ive stated multiple times in this thread, im both the user and operator of a site currently discussed. That does make me biased, but so is someone who is against gambling in general. That doesnt negate our valid arguments on either side, though.

Some maybe, not all. Some are built to facilitate an expanded number of games, which Torn doesnt offer. Plinko sites being a good example I guess. Or slots which arent absolute garbage like Torn one. So bypassing the daily limit is definitely not their prime point. Especially considering some of them also offer the same exclusion options as Torn.

Thanks for the response. None of the questions I asked you have been "largely already answered" - which is why I was asking them.

Not once have you expanded upon if "regulation was also a part of the discussion". Not this time either btw. 

Edit:
Actually, reading through your post again I understand. "2/3 - no they're getting banned" - roger that, so regulation was never even been on the table. Good to know.

If going by this argument then wouldnt you also agree that if 3rd party sites would offer exclusion options like torn and have a similar 75 token play limits then they would be fine?

Since this is exactly what happened previously with the websocket debacle and bogie knows this, is the exact reason this thread exists. The "poll" is absolutely inconsequential and the thread only exists so he can later say "but I asked the communityyyyyyyy", while at the same time ignoring every argument not supporting his preordained conclusions. Simply put, hes just farming karma and saving his own ass when his mind was already made up before making the thread.

Good morning! Third time asking these same questions. Will I receive an answer this time perhaps or will they be included in the future "suitable wording"?

1. “Paying out winnings from these services can itself be treated as promotion.”
   1. Can you please explain how service payouts = promotion? A payout requires an existing participant. Existing participant knows about the service. You cant promote the service to someone that knows about the service.
2. Have you considered (you started the thread by stating "we discussed" but have later pivoted to "you are banning these services") regulating instead of restricting?
   1. If someone wants to operate a "games of chance" site they would need to adhere to rules set by Torn. Stuff like exclusion options, play limits, verifiable odds (via commitment systems for example) etc
   2. Not much extra policing on Torn's side really necessary. The community, especially competitors, would weed out the non-adhering sites real fast and report their operators.  
3. Why not letting them operate, as long as they dont advertise? (Meaning not including the payouts=promotion absurdity). You are confident that 99% of them would die if not allowed that so why not just let them do that?

You should start writing clear and comprehensible rules instead of bogie. 

Last sentence though: The prohibited conduct is the advertising and promotion of the 3rd party gambling service itself and the use of torn assets to gamble in said 3rd party service.

Perhaps "OR the use of Torn assets"? "And" makes it sound like the first coupled with the second is prohibited conduct.