Leafeh: forum

Advanced tl;dr: Change the forum rating system so that you can't see negative ratings in your feed. It serves no good purpose and only causes problems and breaks the system.

Been meaning to make this thread for ages, since the karma system has been broken for ages. Here are my thoughts on why this needs to happen quoted from another thread.

Really, players shouldn't even be able to see who is negative rating them, so that nonsense like this is avoided entirely, as it used to be. No decent system on larger sites (or any site I can think of really) allows people to see who is leaving negative ratings or downvotes, for good reason, because it completely breaks the systems and would cause chaos.. Karma hasn't functioned properly here in years because of this.

How can your average user rate casually and honestly if they always have the thought of "is this person going to get mad in my chat or mail if they see?", "are they going to get mad and list my dislike in the post?", "are they going to attack or bounty me?", "are they going to flip out and get their entire faction on me?", "are they just going to go and rate down all my posts in retaliation?".

It's been a flawed system for years. We were better off without it at all. And if we must have it, the earlier version with stealth negative and positive rating was superior.

Basically the rating system shouldn't be able to be influenced by factors such as the fear of the person you are rating repeatedly attacking you as a result, or flooding you with bounties, or any other form of coercion. And the easiest way to do this rather than have staff moderate every reported instance of this to achieve parity with the regulations on manipulating positive ratings, is to simply remove the ability for people to hunt down those that down rate them in the forums.

As far as I'm aware, Torn is unique in doing this (and not in a good way), as I can't think of any site that actually reports to users everyone that dislikes their post.

I've never been a fan of the Karma system, but I believe this would be a step in a better direction at least.

As a side-note, in theory, displaying who positively rates can also limit honest rating as people are less inclined to positively rate a post they agree with or like, if the person that made it is someone they are not on good terms with. But I'd imagine this is a much rarer occurrence. For now, the negative ratings appearing in players forum feeds need to go.

inb4 downvotes from karma whores, narcissists, and for the irony of it!

Advanced TL;DR: Add

• Failed Revives
• Busts Received
• Money Lost From Mugs
• Total Forum Posts
• Total Karma
• Likes Given 
• Dislikes Given 

 

As tracked stats on the personal stats graphs.

 

 

Just a minor quality of life suggestion for revive stat tracking.  It would be nice if personal stats tracked the failed attempts, like it does for the busts category.

 

Right now, if you fail a revive, your energy vanishes into the void and there's nothing really to show your attempt ever happened in the stat graphs.

 

 

 

If anyone has any ideas for any other stat tracking we are lacking that would be nice to see in the personal stats graphs, perhaps post your desires here and I'll edit them in, and hopefully if this gets reviewed they can pick and choose whatever they feel would be good to have on there.

 

 

Stat tracking for total forum posts and karma (and perhaps total likes/dislikes given out, maybe viewable only to the user) included in the personal stats graphs under the "communications" tab, would also be neat to have.

 

Edit: Also realised that the revive stats track revives received, but for some reason busts don't track busts received as a stat. Would be neat to have parity on that as well.

 

+ Money Lost From Mugs would be nice to have as a tracked stat as well. Although I imagine there might be some argument over this, as it could reveal potential mug targets too easily and cause problems for people if not on some sort of update delay.  Unsure on the implications there, but know muggers and their victims can be a contentious topic.

 

I have removed the Money Lost From Mugs stat as I found it previously suggested with a response from Ched explaining why it wasn't added before, and I understand that reasoning.

 

As it stands, someone can post something rule-breaking or just plain stupid, and edit it after with no potential for in-thread evidence it ever existed.

Because for some reason, if someone edits their posts, it also edits the post of anyone who has quoted that post.

Why is this a thing? I think it'd be best for it to return to how it was in the past, where once a post was quoted, it was immortalized.

Edit: An option to view an edit history would be fine too.

Edit 2: It's only just occurred to me years later that the poll text shouldn't read

• People should not be able to edit quoted posts

But rather "People should not be able to edit quotes in other peoples posts" or something like that.

Perfectly fine for posts that have been quoted to still be edited, that edit just shouldn't be reflected in quotes people have already made. ~

 

 

Edit 3: Explanation in a later post in this thread

 

This thread has been moved over from the old Torn forums, and had been neglected by myself for too many months. I've now made additions and changes to the original suggestions which I hope improve it.


This game needs more expansions to make different play-styles more desirable, interesting and rewarding for those who choose to take them.

I've never been into warring, and never really cared about my stats. I only did attacks to please faction overlords, and spent my energy in the gym because there wasn't much elsewhere for it to go.

That was until I found reviving. A glorious place to throw all my energy into that wasn't stats or attacks. Something I could possibly make a name for myself in.

So I went for it. And it was great. For a while anyway.


The path to gain the title of 'healer' and the revive honors feels very dry.

I don't know how many different styles of play are out there. So I can only speak for my own, which is the Medic or 'Healer'. But I hope this thread can also inspire others who feel their path is very limited or stagnated to make their own thread, and push to get their route more content to keep it interesting and fun for others who might also pick the same path.

So this thread is where I suggest some additions to the Healer/Medic route that I'd like to see, which hopefully make the play-style more enjoyable both in the early and later stages.

[Small Quality of Life Changes]

- Have an option to enable one click reviving in the hospital and profile pages. (No warning about how much E it will cost, just revive on clicking the symbol.)



Merits/Honours
I'll get the common out of the way first.

It's a tired addition. People want them added everywhere. It's a cheap way to keep people happy with what they're doing. I know. But I really feel two lone merits/honours at the 1k and 2k (It's worse than my tired self could remember! Only honours at the 500 and 1k mark!) for reviving isn't enough.

Most just marathon to the 500 and 1k, and then they drop reviving completely. And you can say it's my fault for carrying on knowing there were no further rewards in terms of merits, but it leaves myself, quite past the 1k mark, feeling a little disheartened.

Increasing increments between merits/honours is an obvious move. Such rewards will only find themselves in the hands of those with the conviction to stay true to the path of a healer.

Perhaps:
5,000 Revives - Hand Me The Scalpel 
7,500 Revives - It's Alive!
12,500 Revives - We Have The Technology, We Can Rebuild Them.
17,500 Revives - Elixir of Life
25,000 Revives - God Hand

I really do need to get graphics made for these.

I expect a few people will say that the required amount of revives for each is too high, and request I lower it. I'll decline in advance. The purpose of this is to reward those set on the route. Not to be a quick stream of merits for everyone to quickly marathon.

Additional suggestion for expansion of this thanks to FalconE51 [78101] over at his thread here - New Merits - Flight Related with the idea of having merits/honours for reaching milestones in revives performed while abroad.


Medical Starter Job Actually Providing Benefits to The Revive Ability.

I'm a medic/healer, and yet I'm happily sitting in my casino job for the extra tokens because of the simple fact that the medical job does f**k all to assist with reviving, aside from granting the ability in the first place, which then becomes a passive ability anyway.

None of this feels right at all.

Now I'm not going to suggest having the Revive ability become one that isn't passive. Since my goal here is to try and make a new route more desirable and accessible for players to enjoy and experiment with. Limiting it to those only in the Medical job would likely just kill it off completely, and more importantly, it'd most likely piss off already existing players. And nobody wants that!

Rather, I'll suggest that being in the medical job should grant small but significant advantages to those that really want to commit themselves to the way of a healer. Leaving those who wish to revive more casually outside of the medical job very much unharmed and free to do so.

Job Specials - There's been some job updates since I last posted this suggestion. I'm not quite sure where they're headed though.


I was incredibly tired and lazy at the time of writing this, but I believe everything looked alright in the end. However, balancing suggestions would be much appreciated if someone believes there may be problems with my current numbers. These numbers can always be edited provided there is good reason to warrant doing so.

First, move the ability to revive people down to the rank of Surgeon. This is because later job specials that supplement the revive ability would of course have to be unlocked after the revive ability itself. And at present there is no room after brain surgeon. It only makes sense.

So you'd have

Surgeon - Revive Ability Unlocked - Revive someone for 75 energy (Passive) 
Brain Surgeon - Trade in 1000 Job Points for a 'Medical Bar'

Medical Bar - This would be a bar much like the Happy, Nerve and Energy bar that are already displayed. And would be displayed either in the job screen, or the information section along with the other bars.

The medical bar would cap at 75/75, the base amount for one revive, and can only be used to perform revives. Giving those positioned in the medical job for a significant period of time a deserved advantage to their selected vocation.

1 medical point is equal to 1 Energy. But can only be spent on revives.

When performing a revive, the Medical Bar will always be depleted first over the energy bar.

In the event there is not enough points accumulated in the Medical Bar for a revive, the remaining required points would be deducted from the energy bar of the player.

For example:
-Player-Kun wants to perform a Revive at the base cost of 75 Energy.
-Player-Kun only has 20 Medical Bar points, but also has 60 Energy.
-The revive is performed
-20 energy is deducted from Player-Kun's medical bar, leaving it at 0/75
-The remaining 55 Energy required to perform the revive is deducted from Player-Kun's Energy Bar, leaving it at 5/150 (or 5/100 if Player-Kun is not a donator)



The Medical Bar would regenerate at a rate of 1 point every 5 minutes. Giving players with these bonuses an extra revive roughly every 6 hours. If my math hasn't failed me.

This bonus would not be passive. Leaving the Medical job would forfeit the ability, and the player would have to spend 1000 job points to attain the ability again after rejoining the medical job.




Next.

Consultant Rank Specials. - Group Therapy/Intensive Group Therapy

This special would have two ways of operating. Which are unlocked separately, but can both be used after being both unlocked, the latter not replacing the former upon unlock. 

Group Therapy - Unlocked at Consultant Rank. No other conditions required.
- Cost: 5 job points
- Player selects 4 players from the hospital page that are all hospitalized for the same reason.
- The four players hospital times are reduced by 3 hours and 30 minutes

Working Example
- Player-Kun selects 4 players that are in hospital with their reason listed as 'Mauled by a guard dog'
- Player-Kun has 5 job points deducted
- Result: The group therapy works wonders! They'll make a full recovery in no time!
- The 4 selected players all have their hospital times reduced by 3 hours and 30 minutes

How this special will not work
-Player-Kun selects 4 players that are in hospital with their reasons listed as 'Overdosed on Xanax' and 'Burned in Arson Attempt'
- No job points are deducted from Player-Kun
- Result: These patients are all here for different reasons! Group therapy won't be effective!
-The special fails to work because the players are not in hospital for the same reason.

And the second special

Intensive Group Therapy - Expansion available once at Surgeon rank. Costs 50 million for training to unlock.

Works much like the regular group therapy, but costs Energy and Nerve rather than job points, and has a more effective result.

- Cost: 100 Energy, 25 Nerve.
- Player selects 4 players from the hospital page that are all hospitalized for the same reason.
- The four players are revived, their hospital times reduced to 0.

Working Example
- Player-Kun selects 4 players that are in hospital with their reason listed as 'Mauled by a guard dog'
- Player-Kun has 150 energy and 25 nerve deducted
- Result: The intensive group therapy works wonders! They've all made a full recovery!
- The 4 selected players are all revived, their hospital times reduced to 0.

How this special will not work
-Player-Kun selects 4 players that are in hospital with their reasons listed as 'Overdosed on Xanax' and 'Burned in Arson Attempt'
- No energy or nerve is deducted from Player-Kun
- Result: These patients are all here for different reasons! Intensive group therapy won't be effective!
-The special fails to work because the players are not in hospital for the same reason.



Blood Transfusions - Coming Soon! 

With the new attacking system, I'm not really sure how one would 'balance' this. And as someone that doesn't really do much attacking now, I doubt I have the knowledge to create the right numbers for something like this. But I'll still provide examples of how it'd function, and perhaps someone with more knowledge on this subject could suggests some numbers and do the math, if they'd be so kind.

Well, that was actually an update. Just not in the way I had in mind. o.o

 

Auto-Medic

Not sure how to go about adding this in right now, but somehow earning the ability to set up an auto-revive on a specific person would be nice. So that if you need to keep someone out of hospital, having this ability turned on would automatically attempt to revive that person every time they entered hospital. Obviously it would only activate if you were already online.

 



*I'll likely expand and edit this section when not dying from sleep deprivation. All suggestions to improve are greatly appreciated as long as they conform to the goals I would like to achieve here. Please keep my intentions of making dedication to a specific route rewarding in mind*

Moving on out of the straight and narrow doctor territory, for those that want to dabble in something a little more Tornesque, a little more of the dark and sinister they were promised upon sign up to the game.

Alternate Route: 

I'm unsure where to add this as an unlock. Possibly a new rank or position called "Rogue Doctor" that branches off from the normal progression.

Would cost 50 Job Points to switch over to the route, and the same amount to switch back to the normal one. While in one route, the specials of the other route cannot be used. (With the Basic 'Revive' special and Medical Bar upgrade being the exception.)

For example, while in the Rouge Doctor route, a player would not be able to use any of the group therapy specials, but would still be able to revive and possess a medical bar. And while in the Regular Doctor route, you would not be able to use the Botch Surgery or Aggravate Patient specials, but would also still possess the ability to revive and the medical bar.

Plenty of options here. A lot to experiment with. I have a couple I'd like to see, and of course all additions and suggestions are most welcome. Your imaginations will fuel this one nicely.

Special: Molest Aggravate Patient (Name changed due to complaints of it being distasteful in the other thread)
- Cost: 75 E, 11 Nerve
- Target one person in hospital

- Success Message: You grow tired of your normal life and normal actions, the boredom of this repetition is like a poison to your mind, and you can only think of one cure. You've always treated patients so well, even the undesirable ones, but here's your chance to teach this patient a lesson... You aggravate the helpless patient lying in front of you.

You gain: 200 happy
Target loses: 400 Happy, All Nerve.

Failure Message: You grow tired of your normal life and normal actions, the boredom of this repetition is like a poison to your mind, and you can only think of one cure. You've always treated patients so well, even the undesirable ones, but here's your chance to teach this patient a lesson... You begin to aggravate the helpless patient lying in front of you, but just seconds in a relative of theirs bursts through the door. You've been caught red handed!

Jail Time: 5 Hours
You lose: 250 Happy, $500,000
Target Gains: $500,000





Special: Botch Surgery

- Cost: 75 Energy
- Target one person in hospital
- Success Result: Targets hospital time is increased by up to 80% of their current time. 40% minimum.




And that's all I've got as of this moment. Please let me know if I've overlooked any significant problems that make these suggestions impractical, and I'll do my best to resolve the issues. I'll also be trying to keep up to date with this thread, adding any other ideas I think of over time. (I know I said that before, and ended up letting the thread die, but that shouldn't happen again.) (It happened again. Sorry to everyone who has up-voted and supported this suggestion, I have failed you.)

Please tell me this is an ironic shitpost.

Either way

[image: media.discordapp.net]

https://www.torn.com/preferences.php#tab=navigation-settings

 

 

 

Tbh, thanks for reminding this exists. Just removed it myself.

Really though, someone has to be funding the shit thread spam. Give us a name so they can be reported for enticement. :)

 

8, nearly 9 threads from GD to Grave within a week. It's almost impressive.

 

Is someone paying you to make shit threads?

 

Edit: Ah, it's a Global chat leak. That explains it.

 

 

Thanks for alerting GD to a scammer popping back up though. Back at home in Global. Thought I recognised the name Pastatute.

 

A worker stole my company

 

 

 

 

I'd just like to thank every casino runner and gambling addict that came out of the woodwork to look like an ass in this thread, crash out, spam post, and the rest of it. You did a better job of convincing everyone these needed to be banned, than anyone else here. 

 

There were a couple of sensible ones that just realised the game was up and prepared for the gravy train to end, but they were rare.

Fedded or gambling addict/casino owner on an alt.

 

Call it.

Considering the game admins/staff have just finally reached the conclusion that these services were in breach of the RMT rule the whole time they were operating (some players worked this out already and were confused why these casinos were not already banned), it doesn't seem wise to continue trying to defend of justify them here, for those that are trying to do so.

 

This site has already been incredibly lenient in allowing these to operate unchecked for so long. Most other sites/games I can think of would have already permanently banned your account if they caught wind of you setting up a virtual casino that uses their game currency in exchange for credits to operate, even if they claimed those credits could only ever convert back into the game currency.

 

If I went to try this with something like OSRS gold for example, I would be banned, no doubt about it.

 

 

 

Operators will be INCREDIBLY lucky if the operation and gains from these services do not result in enforcement under the existing RMT rule. I assume you will luck out and they will not bother to enforce as they didn't really pick up on it for so long. But, I also wouldn't be surprised if they did go ahead and enforce the rule it breached the whole time.

I think you misunderstand the point of people pushing for a ban on this.

 

They don't want ANY of you here, legitimate or not. The game already has a casino players can use. If you want to run a casino, do it somewhere else, not on Torn. 

 

It should not be the job of this games staff to start micro-managing external casino sites for compliance. 

 

This is Torn, not build your own casino town sim.

 

Edit: LMFAO at the first person to hit dislike on this post. Had to check the state of the networth graph.

 

 

 

You can't make it up. 

Glad to see moves toward it finally happening. I was thinking of writing up a newspaper article on this topic, but it's looking like it's going to be rather redundant now.

 

I always found it odd that it didn't somehow fall afoul of the existing rules on RMT. If additional rules need to be added to catch it though, sounds good to me. 

 

Edit: As an additional note, over the years from posts in the suggestions forum, Ched always seemed as though he wanted a limit on what people could do in terms of the casino. Part of his "vision" for the game. Casino tokens existing to limit players just gambling endlessly on the same game over and over.

 

So it never really made sense to just allow an off-site bypass when looking at things that way.

It seems to be accurate to previous times this topic has come up, such as Here and Here.

 

Unless there was some confusion, Ched seemed to confirm that the more books you already own, the lower your chance of getting another book. The idea being that book collections needed to be incredibly difficult to finally complete, otherwise subscriptions would just end once the final book was obtained. So re-rolling off of an already obtained book, to another book, wouldn't make sense for that.

 

If nothing has changed here, the chance of mission reward shop book spawns, and city book spawns, changing these subscription book rates, should also be included in the text explaining these chances.

 

 

Assuming any books that spawn in city finds (picked up or not?), and present in mission reward shops at the time of the draw, would be changing these pull rates without users understanding that.

 

Would be nice to have clarification on these points.

 

Re-rolling to another book if you landed on a book you have would just be a fantastic change though, so I hope it ends up there if it's not already!

 

Can't believe I haven't seen this yet.

 

Edit: LMAO IT WORKED. You're welcome.

I think the Book is the pick for me? Easily.

 

 

There was meme potential here.

 

Edit: Also a great time to remind Apex players to not fall for the "Congratulations, you have won Eliminations! Click Here to claim your rewards."

 

It'll be a link to leave your team. Would be sickening to fall for that right now for anyone there. So be vigilant and don't let the rush from winning and a lack of sleep cloud your judgement.

 

It's killing me that there is a dude called Apexx in the Gold Dust chat just telling them it's over. 

 

 

 

 

Aye, thank you. I just watched the scene. I'm still at a loss tbh, as we've had worse posted in GD that went unactioned before.

 

There's been meme videos with footage of people having their hands chopped off, chest and heads stabbed through, and it was allowed up with the defense that it was from a TV show and so deemed acceptable (I filed a report as I was curious how such things were treated and that was the reply I got). So surely a movie scene falls under the same defense?

 

Then again, that was some time ago now, so I suppose they might have tightened up the rules on that. Wouldn't be surprised with all the restrictions the UK has been putting on the kind of content sites are allowed to distribute without rigorous age verifications of users.

 

Edit: To answer the below post, if memory serves, it looked like scenes from the first season of the witcher tv show, and some from Game of Thrones.. Haven't watched the former myself, but I recall Henry Cavill being in it.

 

Is the brain surgeon graphics warnings some sort of elaborate shitpost? I'd guess yes based on the fact the graphic reposted a few pages ago has remained up?

 

It seems so absurd I'm unable to tell.

I'm assuming you completely missed the part about the profile images being a boomer solution to image uploads for the forums. Otherwise this framing doesn't make any sense with all this existing context.

 

 

You can find where they were posted to the forums and why HERE.

 

Even I'm too employed to keep up with this shit though, so I've not read that entire thread, but it seems clear enough that it was posted in the context of it being a Torn linked and verified discord account, to prove it was them posting torn related stuff, in relation to torn related activity and players.

 

If I'm wrong, feel free to correct. As I said, 2 months ago when I predicted they were getting fedded for abuse of report function when it was clear they were an attention seeker looking for drama and trouble at every possible opportunity, was when I checked out bothering to follow the play by play in the forums, and just wait for the eventual fed to be posted here.

 

Edit: Also a pro tip, have a separate discord for Torn related activity and servers. It's not any other players obligation to be responsible for your safety if you are careless with your account management, and you should not expect to be able to leverage it as a defense to strip away the ability of people to post it legitimately when required as evidence.

 

2nd edit: Just seen your following post. tbh this framing of The_Virginian, despite all the available context and evidence, and somehow calling HIM the troll, is disgusting. The actual troll is in fed for a week. (Thank you for updating your post to remove the troll part!)

Wow, who could have possibly predicted this 2 months ago? And in this very thread.

 

 

 

Can't say they weren't warned. Gave them a prime example of the way they were going to end up going out Some people are just beyond help. Is the attention seeking really worth 7 days in fed and eventually a perm fed? I guess we'll find out.

 

Pictured: All the things making it difficult to find motivation to join this time around. Perhaps I've played it out.

 

The competition somehow still not having a solid reward structure is getting sad.

 

The lack of mechanics changes after what was supposed to be a beta-test last year is also disappointing. The single leader down from three is probably a good change, but we've had plenty of suggestions over the years on how to improve this competition in regard to ticket gain/loss & life loss mechanics, and it would have been nice to see some movement on that at all for once. 

 

Players are now assigned to teams on a balanced basis rather than at random, to help ensure the fairest Elimination possible.

 

This sounds like a good move (provided it can't be manipulated), and perhaps the stealth changes make alliance betrayals more difficult to detect and so increases drama potential, but I'd still like to see experimentation with life loss and ticket gain changes.

 

I still remember the year the medical revamp was used as an excuse to not trial any additional changes, because that was somehow considered significant enough that no other changes were needed. Looking back on some of those posts, it took us 4 years just to get full randomisation of teams after Proxima held a poll on it. 

 

Here's hoping next year is the year for some bold changes that really shake things up. It's long overdue.

 

Although if I shake off being grumpy from being bot-hunted, and focus on positives? I'll say the possible entertainment from the captain/leader voting system is what got me involved last year, and it didn't disappoint. I wanted to experience that process first-hand and test what could be done with it, and the results were great.

 

It's a system that I'd say has definitely improved things. I don't really understand the hate for it when I see it. I appreciate my opinion is biased due to the fact our team won under the new leadership voting system, but I think even if we didn't go on to win, it wouldn't change the fact the system allowed players with actual widespread support from the teams membership to move forward with very little resistance and a sense of legitimacy. 

 

I won't get into the weeds on it, but we were basically able to dodge some landmines thanks to the voting system, and it prevented people just coasting back into self-appointed leadership roles based on being legacy leads without anyone else having a say or chance to interrogate it. I dare say it gave us good footing on the path to victory.

 

The cosmetic badges were a neat addition as well, and it's nice to see those expanding with top hitter and captain badges. I do hope they apply those retroactively to last years beta-run, if all the data is there to work out top hitters and leaders. Obviously it'd be neat to have one for myself, but there's absolutely leaders and especially top hitters from the last run that deserve those badges far more than me, and it'd be great to see those people recognised.

 

With all that said, I'll probably still end up joining, telling myself the option to hit the leave button is there... and then not end up clicking it!

 

Edit:  Joined and running for lead again to try and help my team secure a stable path to another victory. :)  Will be fun to see how it goes!

It changed very recently (3 months ago) to a "daily chance-based check". I can't find information on what time that check runs at, so you'd have to find someone that was kicked from an education course after 26th of May this year and ask them what time they got kicked at.

 

As for the replies in this thread, might be accurate under the new check, might not?

 

It used to trigger on home page views, so could be avoided entirely at any addiction level by just avoiding visiting the home page for education duration. No one really ever worked that out until recently though, which is why it only now got fixed/changed.

 

Now it's not triggered by home page viewing, it might be possible to get very lucky and pass the daily check even with high addiction level. Depends how harsh the pass rate is, even if it's the same as the old home page visit check, it's impossible to know how harsh that was since it was being triggered on every home page viewing, so anyone getting whacked by it before might have just been triggering the check a lot.

 

Basically you're treading new ground, so be sure to let us know what happens, and what time the check gets you kicked at if it ends up happening. As I can't find recent education kicks posted to identify the time.