CALC splitting up

I think this whole issue is silly. We should just have a war so the junior ex-Calc factions will understand why they were SUB-factions....

Staff Edit: Content Removed

Had some great wars with Hank. Very respectable leader.

EDIT: For those interested it was a picture of Hank Moody from californication. Sowy for cussing fellow patrons of this thread.

if you are in a family faction (2+factions representing the same name type) and one of them need help and no help is ever given im surprised hank and others put up with that crap for so long,from the outside looking in it seems as if calculated didnt care about ING or IVE and only themselves

I don't think you read very well, no one is here to spoon feed anyone. Who do you spoon feed over there anyways if your so passionate about this?

spoon feed?im talking about help in wars,why even have a sub faction if you are not prepared to help them at all

Let them have fun. I had fun with wars, I don't see the problem. That's how they grow up. :)

Wish I could like this more than once. Californication is the greatest

I have friends in both factions, but I would have never developed into a solid war participate without going through the rough stuff a time or ten.
Even real life families break up sometimes... let em do their own thing...

For me, we're still all Calc family. I've donated to help build all of us up, and don't see any reason to let the fact that mom and dad are fighting change the way I feel about my brothers and sisters in the family.

I do wish there were better ways to let everyone know about the war periods, and I do think the sub factions spend too much time fighting instead of training, but it comes down to problems with communications being limited by the game. It's the way it works.

The initial idea of 'ing was presented as a slightly less restrictive environment with lower requirements for warring so we didn't have to lose family members and true friends who had served when real life intervened or when they screwed sokmething up and were unable to meet some requirements. I met that definition more than a few times, so I was always glad to have the safety net. The deal is, the purpose of 'ing shifted as 'ing became powerful in it's own right. 'Ing is every bit as powerful as 'ed these days, and I don't think most people realize it, and I don't think that the shift in power has been allowed for.

Once we get this figured out, I think things will come back together. Should Ghosty, Kath, Jello, Hank, and the rest of our leaders agree on everything? No. Should they kiss and make up. Yep. Whether it happens or not, I can't say, but I do definitely think people who think it is open season on "vulnerable" targets may have another thing coming.

Just my opinion, but I have put a lot of work and resources into this family, not just into Calculated, but into Calc Family. Can Calc businesses. And into training Calc noobs. Heck, a lot of them are tougher than me now. ;)

Something to think about for those who say that it's a shame that 'ed isn't willing to help out in wars anymore...

Let's shift the situation to a workplace: There are three departments. The oldest one with the old experienced members, one with good experience and a new one with few experience. Ofc the oldies will help the other two. But after weeks or months they consider that the newbies know enough and have to do the job alone so they themselves can do their own work again.
Unfortunately the other two departments overtaxes themselves again and again and again. The oldies have to help again and again and again. One day the oldies will have had enough.

Or something else. You're a parent, your kids are finally grown up and still you aren't allowed to go on vacation without them because they can't handle their lifes alone.

How would you feel? Would you be happy to help again and again and again?

I've had the work situation. But only with one colleague. I helped him and helped him and helped him. Still he refused to do the work alone. He even started to lie that I hadn't explained stuff (although he had written it down...). I was already in the mood to leave that job because of that guy.

So I can imagine that 'ed got tired of helping.

from what ive herd and seen ed have barely or if ever helped in wars,so how can they be tired of something they have rarely or never done?

"It was decided as a group we form a sub Faction to Calculated and this part is KEY - The sub is to PRODUCE and train players for Calculated. Calculating was formed again by the generosity of Calculated members so when we kick those that are busy or got less time for the game we could send them to Calculating whilst Calculating gave us their best guys in return. I found it very insulting sometimes kicking someone who has given their all to the faction and they missed a few chains then all of a sudden they should be kicked." - ghosty [1348728]

Calculating is a bootcamp producing chainers for Calculative. I assume Hank just wants to be an equal and not a sub? :3

To clarify some things- there have been a number of occasions where help was given to the subs. When I was leader of calculative all I had to do was ask. I rarely did as we had pride in our own chaining ability... But for example when we where being targeted by lowf because ing and Ed used them as filler every war period we came together and crushed them. It didn't happen often but each of us was filled with prideful and loyal chainers- why did it need to? This is just a excuse to cover up the true motives. I'll elaborate on my view of what happened as I'm currently bored.

Hank has always set his goals higher then everyone else which in many ways is good but when warring other factions often illogical especially in the early days. He expected a bailout every time he couldn't win wars he shouldn't of even started. Better factions often bait him for that reason and I don't think ghosty should force us into action to help in wars Of this nature.

Like with every other situation I have seen hank face- if someone does not live up to his standards and expectations and provide for him exactly what he seeks they get cut. It Don't matter if you have been his friend for years, when you falter in his propose for you your nothing to him. Some of my best chainers came because of his rashness and my ability to push them with fun and not threats of kicking. As the only person within Calc leadership that didn't view him as my superior but equal and someone that could of stopped this he removed me from the faction I made with lies and gave it to one of his puppets. Leaving only ghosty as someone who could dispute his rule- and as he got bolder and upset by all that transpired he got cut to. He has no power in calculated (which is why I came here)so his only option was to cut ties completely to reign as the person in control of the other 2 factions.

What is left of Ive is in large part not the members who made it what it is- they all left when I was forced out and the faction they loved was taken from them. so to say I've agrees has no meaning. the leadership now has been doing it a month or 2 and where given the roles by you can guess it- hank. I'm sure they bought the story fed to them- and given the fact that the majority are ing guest chainers (because my core left when I did) they didn't have to convince many.

I'm personally glad not to have to be associated with a person who plays this way, as I play to make friends and have fun. I did neither of those things with the majority of the people whos game hank now controls so I'm good with this separation. As for the friends there that remain- I'm still here for you if ever you need my help.

"and I don't think ghosty should force us into action to help in wars Of this nature"

and that is exactly calculated's problem,you all shouldnt have to be forced to help,if "family" needs help you help them no ifs or buts about it

Thanks for making your thoughts public Jello.

I've read all the public posts including the Hank2Ghosty mail, though I haven't been exposed to the unabridged wartime guesting requests I've had some trickle down to me, just a balance needs to be agreed and acted upon as this appears to the mayor sticking point.

Jello, what, specifically where your perceived failings as ive leader?
- not a dig but I'd like to understand the true behind the smoke and snowballs.

Again, I hope an.olive branch can be offered and renewed, workable terms can be sought for the Calc family.

As a sub leader I knew not to get into wars we could not win- hank would seek them. When you lack the stats and people to win a war without question to go into it anyway is poor leadership. Ghosty does not support poor leadership choices and I think that is correct. There is a difference between helping when needed and responding to a mistake a person repeatedly made.

Many times the main protected us from becoming farms which I feel is the goal- not to gain for us what we could do ourselves. It also has no relevance to the current state of things as Ing is full they would have to kick chainers to make room and I've is just respect farming as they lack the ability to really war as is. If it had been needed people here would of helped.

As far as I see the issue, 'ing has grown to strong to be a sub faction of 'ed. 'Ing was initially started to be a breeding ground for chainers for 'ed, and as such, was never intendended to get involved in the level of wars it then eventually did. Basically, 'ing got ambitous, to a point where the view of the role of the sub faction differed greatly in the leadership of 'ed and 'ing. This I see as the main reason as to why opinions differ as much as they do as far as support goes.

Going off the fact that 'ing have been working their arses off and are today more or less equal to 'ed, I can understand perfectly well why this fell apart. The main purpose of the faction had changed, but the future role had not been discussed.

In regards to "not supporting in big wars". I feel I understand Ghostys views well. 'Ing was intended to strengthen 'ed. In 'ed we have carefully planned out training and war periods, as well as OC's. If members of the main have to run off and bail out the sub all the time, this shedule is disturbed, and the main suddenly isnt benefiting from the sub, rather the opposite. Couple this with the fact that 'ings own ambitions now were matching 'eds, and suddenly 'ing wasnt raising new chainers for 'ed as it was first intended either.

Considering this, I fully understand why the split up happened, I just wish it had been on more civil terms. And as far as the 'ive situation is, that is basically just politics and connections at this point

I contributed 300m towards the formation of -ing for jello to run. Then I hear jello has been forced to leave, no consultation with me as one of the shareholders, and now the family has split up, wtf did i put money into the family for? I've lost my investment, I feel like I've been scammed.

The whole point about a family is to bail the other out in any situation.

If if you don't. Then you aren't a family and you are an associate or a loosely associated group.

but the biggest thing is all the calculating factions are a joke when it comes to the semi strong factions. They are good at making respect but sucky at winning a war(the unfortunate part of torn......time=strength)

I never for a second thought we had a problem. The solution is to let them be war hero and let them be. This whole thing is about power and historical attention over everyone. Your talking about help, they know everything they need to know to play the game, possibly more than you. The people that need help is the ones who have just started. Doing everything for someone is not helping anyone. If you had kids and did everything for them how will they learn? They will never grow up and understand how they got there because someone spoon fed their way there.

This faction talk is supposed to be about it's members *emphasis on members*. Part of a leaders role is to represent his members and his governing body. The leaders help formulate the best solution for all who is involved and not put himself before everyone. There should be no blame here, it's what it is.

People with a lot of time can please these types of individuals that you are supporting of. I already explained it well to you; we don't need to spoon feed anyone. The solution is to part ways for now, everyone will gain experience with what they like to do and later think how foolish this all started. There is no need for politics here.

It's not that we choose not to help, we choose to let them be who they really are. Territory hopefully will be around the corner, let's get ready for that! Shall we? ;)