Goodbye

Goodbye.

Hopefully peace and rationality prevails.

If Israel won't integrate the Palestinians into Israeli society, and if they won't leave then what is the alternative? Palestine is a failed state. I think a war between Palestine and Israel has been a LONG time coming, but equating it to Trumps presidency seems a dubious claim.

Would be nice to just make a big bit of land between the two and occupy it with drone / AI weapons and sentries.

I can already see where this thread is going, and I can see the number of upvotes/downvotes, and the outcome as well.

Regardless, I'd love to get into an incessant, possibly uncivilized argument, because that's what keeps life going, the few daily minutes spent reading/replying to relevant, irrelevant, biased, and unbiased posts.

On a side note, I'm glad to see HILL-FOR-HELL has adopted a more refined approach than the previous discussion, although you were provoked a bit, to be fair.



The only possible permanent solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is one of four:

1- Either side annihilates the other

2- Either side creates a state that integrates the other completely, resulting in a unified country

3- Either side leaves

4- The Chinese annihilate both, removing the problem all together

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The part about the Jihad is not true. We, as Muslims today, have too many problems to manage, and are too divided, and therefore cannot absolutely defend Palestinians, and that is the sad truth, at least for the time being. We can, on the other hand, support the Palestinian cause quite a bit, despite not being able to solve the crisis.

The current "Jihad" going on, where the targets are Islamic countries, is a pathological process that represents rebound corrupt Muslims seeking personal interests through mercenary work.

The problem IS compromise. Neither side will compromise, and the UN doesn't have the teeth to "force" anyone to really do anything without the backing of the US.

[image: s24.postimg.org]

Anyway, I was looking for cartoons to explain this and found this to be much, much funnier.

The Children of Abraham can't all play nice in the same sandbox, and the whole world has to suffer.

I am substantially certain that the two-state solution is dead in the water. There is a quite simple reason why: Jerusalem. Both Israel and Palestine believe that their own side must end up with Jerusalem, and that it must be their capital. Both countries are religiocracies that believe control of that city by their religion is divinely ordained. It is non-negotiable, and neither is willing to share it. The two-state solution will therefore fail.

That's a bit condescending. We, as Arabs, Hebrews, and Semites in general, have a much richer history than Europe. That is, prior to the modern age, so just because you have it better now doesn't mean it was always that way.

Also, no one is suffering but the Palestinians and those that support the Palestinian cause. Israelis are not suffering, and neither is the rest of the world.

I think both Israel and Palestine need a common enemy to unite them.

So it would be a good idea for the UN, backed by its 5 permanent members, to declare Jerusalem an independent region.

Unless Israel and Palestine can come up with a solution to jointly manage the city, neither side should have control over it.

This would be disastrous for Israel and Palestine. Both would feel that the declaration of Jerusalem as independant would be contrary to their best interests, causing there to be the desire to take the city by force. This would then bring the battle field into close quarters urban combat, where opponents could be in the same building, fighting over each floor. This would remove the United States' preferred tactics of airstrikes targeting enemy lines, as the frontline would be redrawn multiple times an hour with civilians being caught in the middle.

Sorry, but condescending it may have been, along with accurate.

The whole world has been in conflict since 1948 in one way or another over this issue. The USA has dumped trillions into the middle east because two religions can't figure out how to share a piece of land that is less than 50 square miles. The Palestinians are not the only ones suffering... I would guess that Israeli's who want nothing to do with the conflict are suffering as well. I mean it is a form of suffering to fear that at any moment one could be blown to bits simply for needing a ride on a bus.

I have no dog in that race, so please don't get me wrong. The Palestinians surely are currently suffering the most, but again that is due in large part to all the parties... all those Children of Abraham, who can't seem to figure out how to get along because their particular faiths seem to drive a wedge between them, or at least the interpretations of those faiths.

All seems kind of silly to me, but I guess that is just me being condescending again.

It was going to happen rather trump was on office or not.. Hell it would have happened if we elected madonna or Miley Cyrus.. SOme things are just inevitable.

Not only that, but Israel has the city. They will not simply surrender it. The UN Security counsel is not going to, and should not, decide to militarily invade Israel, a nuclear power. Besides, you'd have to basically do nation building in the new Jerusalem to set up a new government there, and then whichever side (Israel/Palestine) thought the government of Jerusalem was unfair to them, would be attacking anyway, if civil unrest and terrorism didn't stop the plan first. This has no legs.

I can, off the top of my head, think of six possible outcomes.

1. The war between Israel and Palestine continues indefinitely or at least until some other overarching event redraws the map (Ex: World War 3, a global extinction level event, a localized nuclear disaster making the region uninhabitable, etc.)

2. Israel slowly expands geographically through new settlements, and winnows down the Palestinian population through a series of military conflicts and economic pressures such that eventually, either there are no Palestinians left, or there are so few Palestinians left that Israel adopts policies to include them in its nation (Much like the treatment of Native Americans within the United States -- mass genocide followed by inclusion of the few that remained, and minor, disproportionally small, reparations).

3. The situation comes to total war and Israel annihilates Palestine.

4. The situation comes to total war, with foreign intervention favoring Palestine, and Palestine eliminates Israel.

5. The status quo continues for a period of time. Some other middle-eastern power becomes a nuclear power. That other nuclear power comes into conflict with a stronger military, such as the U.S., Russia, or China. In an attempt to get allies in their conflict with another military, they attempt to convert that conflict to a religious struggle, and nuke Israel. This triggers nuclear war in the middle east.

6. In some manner, Israel and Palestine combine into a single nation. For some time, there is internal strife and violence. This either leads to separation and a return to the current status, or to reconciliation.



I would tend to think that 6 is the best case scenario. I believe that the single state solution most likely would occur by Palestine being included in the state of Israel. For this solution to have any chance of leading to reconciliation, however, Israel would need to grant Palestinians citizenship and voting rights. This would greatly change the face of government, as approximately 1/3 of the voters would be Palestinian. It is conceivable, but not a foregone conclusion, that Israel would become a state without an official religion.

I was referring to the European/American attitude of looking at the ME as toddlers, wasn't targeting you personally. I agree with some, and disagree with some, of what you have said. Maybe I'll get into this discussion later on, but right now I'm out, real life taking over again.

You say the arabs have warned the move would inspire global jihad ?

Then Trump is right to close the borders now.

And who controls this independent region ?

If you say the corrupt UN then excuse me will I try not to piss myself laughing.

Where are you from, may I ask, Collete?