Staff made an error in the listing of a bet:
https://www.torn.com/bookie.php#/step=view&ID=51406. They listed the start time too late so the match was underway while the bet was still open. In the past whenever this has occurred the bet has been deleted and all wagers refunded, there is a large precedent for this and as players that's what we've come to expect, though everyone isn't always happy about it. This time however, Staff
locked the bet so that players could not change/delete wagers even though the timer was still counting down. Phillistine informed us that we would get a refund after the game was over and paid out.
Players should be able to trust that the info in the Bookie is correct (odds, multis, dates, times, etc.) and if it is not - Staff is only human after all, mistakes happen - then they should be able to trust that the bet will be refunded as they have countless times before ... not arbitrarily locked and then paid afterward.
Please push to Ched for assistance :)
Thanks,
RealityShift
Mentions:
Can't retrieve money from open bookie bet
If there was any errors in the bet listing they should be refunded regardless it's an error made by staff ..
Bump. This is ridiculous how it is being handled.
The determination whether to pay out or refund is a manager decision on a case by case basis.
In this case, because nobody bet after the match started, they decided to pay out the bet normally and not penalize the players who had bet on the match because of a timing mistake.
You withdrawing your bet after the match started would be the same as making a bet, you would be abusing a glitch for personal gain.
I could understand this if this was brought up after the game however, I posted this my bug report before the game and feel this should be taken into account (and same for SupremeOverlord's post).
If that's the answer, I suggest clarification should be made on the page and torn wiki. As somebody who does not know how bookie betting works, I check the wiki to gain knowledge and this information is not there. If it's not on the wiki, and not stated on the page, how is a player supposed to know that the information on the page could actually be false? An alternative is just get rid of the timer field if it's going to yield improper parameters giving false indications on when it will be locked.
Please push to Ched for suggestion of removing the timers or implementing a blurb on checking for correctness of staff as their screw up is a penalty to the players.
Way to hold yourselves accountable and correct your errors, looks great to the rest of us who pay and support you all.
There is a new bookie system in the works that should address some of these issues, the current one is almost as old as the game itself and definitely needs a refresh, it causes consternation for the staff who work with it every day as much as it does the players.
When the new system goes live, we should be getting close to beta testing very shortly, I expect the Wiki will be updated to reflect the new system.
Bookies are only human, mistakes will sometimes happen, even if there are only a few for every few hundred matches added every week.
Hi.
The bookie team makes mistakes, our threshold is probably under 1% because the unit is well experienced, but we still screw up a few times a week, most of which are corrected before you ever hear about it.
We all donate hours of our time every week to keep the system running smoothly and to have bets up for people who wish to place wagers. We strive for perfection but sometimes slip up.
Feel free to cane us for our transgressions while we pore through multiple odds sites late at night to get matches up for the next day, or input the results so that players get their winnings within a timely manner.
Regards,
Your humble bookie team.
"The determination whether to pay out or refund is a manager decision on a case by case basis."
^^ This is a terrible rule.
I don't understand why you can't issue a refund, he brought the issue up well ahead of time and clearly wasn't trying to abuse the error made. It's just frustrating that you take it on a 'case by case' basis. There should be a standard protocol to handle issues like this and with the information he's provided he seems to be deserved a refund.
That's good to hear but on the current situation, here is my response:
Cash in the bet is not really the point, though obviously if affects me here.
Bookie Staff error on timing/odds/multis/etc has always meant "Delete and refund". In the past Bookie Management has said this all over these forums when defending that action. They don't make special cases or judgement calls - just delete, refund, and relist if applicable.
Your own post a few months ago:
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#!p=threads&f=15&t=15994039&b=0&a=0&to=17506889"The bookie manager will always delete incorrect matches because that is what the policy is"
-Jackson's post in that same thread:
"When an error occurs, it is simply deleted and whether it would'v won or lost, u still get your refund"
Similar situation, wrong start time:
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#!p=threads&f=15&t=15971854&b=0&a=0&start=0&to=17027849taktikz: "as per Torn bookie procedure, the match was refunded."
Mentions:
Bet returned?? · WTF - Staff Error - Bets Cancelled
They investigate the error(s), and if no one bets on the game after it has started; they will pay it out as normal.
This is not the first time...
https://www.torn.com/forums.php?#!p=threads&t=16005830&to=17747700Mentions:
Bet to be refunded
One thing I have learnt about being on the bookie team is whenever a decision is made regarding a bet, it will piss someone off. Guaranteed.
The moral of the story - you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
What baffles me is the countless errors staff seem to be making in the bookie section I know there will be mistakes but past few months there seems to be a lot more issues on a regular basis maybe the bookie staff are getting somewhat effortless ?
It's an absolute joke regardless if staff agree it was their error that caused this in the first place and should have resolved it by refunding not just deciding they won't refund because they can't be arsed to fix the problems they caused in the first place.
Are you people trying to run a business and provide customer service and satisfaction to paying users or are you all just over there dicking around doing whatever you like. There is plenty of evidence to show this has been handled inappropriately, you think just giving some weak ass excuse is professional?
I don't know why it is difficult for you guys to accept the blame, and refund him. How is this his fault, and a proper way to be punished when several times before it was resolved differently?
How about you reply like a professional instead of giving some unhelpful, worthless, inflaming words.
This is true however, the specific problem for me is I posted about this before the game and got told it was a mistake and would be refunded. I can understand not giving a refund to joeschmoe that out of nowhere posts hey give me a refund. But there are post times and the image I posted showing I was trying to get this resolved before the game.
Same issue here--when i bet the match 19hrs left, but the match has already finished.
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There needs to be a clear and posted policy on how these kinds of incidents are handled. I don't think case by case works, especially when there is no consistency. I had a previous issue way back involving Italian games where bets were refunded due to a wrong start time. But in that instance even though my bet was made before the real kick off, it was still refunded.
I'd like to see this kicked upstairs to Ched. There's a few of us with reason to feel aggrieved here and I don't want an argument with the bookies as I know they are volunteers. At the same time, I am Ched's customer and I'd like him to make and publicise a policy to protect the bookie volunteers in these kind of instances.
I think there is consistency. Usually when something like this happens, refunds will be issued to everyone who placed bets on the game; I don't think they are able to just refund the user who reported the issue. However (I have noticed), in some cases, where no-one placed a bet after the game actually started, they will just lock the bet and have it pay out as normal.
There really is no reason to simply refund a game if no-one placed a bet after the game actually started...
The words "usually" and "sometimes" don't really suggest consistency. I've had a past case where a bookie mistake could have favoured me - it was refunded. But a mistake that negatively impacts a player isn't? Not consistent. Let's have an edict from the man himself to settle the matter.
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