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Buy Mugger List (Reply to Add Muggers)

Started by DMoneyGetta [2021215] on in Trading Post.

234 replies · 6.42k views · thread synced · 5 days ago · View on torn.com

Posts archived: 235 / 235 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch

DMoneyGetta [2021215] · #23

I understand what you're saying. You make some excellent points, but as you said, with the exception of being able to check the players Faction attack log, there is no true way to distinguish whether posted evidence is doctored or the real deal, and honestly at least 50% of the players posted on this list are famous Buy/Trade Muggers, with a plethora of mugged players to testify to the game strategy they are being listed on this thread of using.

Buy mugging, trade mugging, and other dishonest strategies used by many players on Torn are certainly not cheating, and the purpose of this list is not to accuse them as such. The main purpose is so Bazaar owners who sell large value items (FHC's, DP's, etc) and Traders who are about to do a large deal with another player can have a thread to consult when deciding on whether to work with that person.

Can this list be abused and, in effect, "weaponized" to falsely accuse other players? Certainly. But I hope you'll agree with me that, while they may be flawed and not completely effective, I've attempted to take steps to prevent this, as well as rectify the situation should a player be falsely accused.



What I really need is both of you, whether you agree with the list or not, help me make it so this cannot be easily abused, and establish a procedure in both adding a player to the list, as well as removing a player from the list. If you have any practical ideas, I'd love to hear them, because as you said, this can easily become a witch hunt, and I really don't want to see that happen. To be honest, the majority of players who use Buy Mugging and Trade Mugging as a strategy on Torn really don't care if their names are on this list, as they've "victimized" so many players, they know what their reputations are, so there really is no harm in this thread as long as players aren't falsely labeled.

Perhaps, as a required procedure to add a player to the list, we require a screenshot, and then run the screenshot through an authentication script, as I've seen many on the web that basically detect whether an image is authentic or not, although the majority of the ones I've seen are used to distinguish if a photo is actually an authentic photo, not a computer generated screenshot. Let me know what you think.
FIN [527880] Helper · #24

Well, for improvement, here's my two cents.

1. Scrap all stealth hits. Literally no way to prove for certain that the person was the hitter. Faction logs maybe, but i have found out that the page itself is easy to manipulate itself, so auto checking scripts would not help and this would also make it easy for people in factions (if they were to be dishonest too) to edit the logs too.

2. ask for the attack log. it would tell you even the amount mugged, you get one with the event as well. That and a screenshot probably would be the best way i can think of to validate the attack as Legit.



Those two things could improve the case a fair bit, as you cannot send an edited "log" created by the system. you can only send it as the real one. But that'll mean that stealth is gone. Everyone who does it a lot, will always slip up though, so why would it make a change? a few more people gets hit by them? someone always will as a lot of people do not read forums.

To be added, i would personally want to see people only added with the solid proof and as that a standardized proof. Someone does not want to show their name, though luck. doing it anonymously does really make no difference at all. That being said, i dont either like the fact for having people there with no proof at all. it just makes the whole list look less reliable when people are there for no apparent reason. If they do it in regular basis, how hard can it be to get proof? I mean, its only fair to treat everyone equally.
DMoneyGetta [2021215] · #25

Well said. Your first suggestion, at first, I didn't really see eye to eye with, but in the end, you're right. Stalking Muggers are out there, and while we both know that the percentage of chance that it was the person involved in the trade that did the mugging, even if one player is mislabeled due to this, it makes the whole system flawed, so point well made.

I really like the second suggestion, and while I'm going to use the next couple of days to revamp the thread, and make it clear that the attack logs are required for addition, that will definitely be a future requirement.

As for removing players without any posted proof, this has been something I've thought about for a bit. Some of the listed players you're speaking of were added by me and those logs have been a long time gone, but just for the posterity and transparency of the thread, I think this is a good suggestion as well. It won't happen overnight, as I'm going to do my best to contact each of the players that have sent me the event logs and such in an attempt to get the Attack Logs, but yes, again this will be a future requirement.

I really appreciate you helping me get another point of view on this, FIN, and pitching some very effective ideas that will definitely make the thread better in the long run :-)

DMG
JackSparr0w [1846714] · #29

Who carries that much cash like that anyways. I always put most in the bank. If you're gonna cry over someone mugging u then don't play torn. Yah, he mugged u after he traded. That happens all the time. Don't cry about it. Move on.
DMoneyGetta [2021215] · #30

As I said in a previous post, this thread is not meant to peg players who employ these tactics as "cheaters". It's meant to be a reference guide for Bazaar owners who sell large value items and Traders in the Trade Room about to do a big deal with a player they are unsure about. If it was "cheating", it would be a forbidden tactic, whether outlawed through Fed punishment or simply not allowed in the code scripting of the game.

Though judging buy the Thumbs up on the thread, there are a lot of players who appreciate a list like this, but I want to make sure it doesn't become corrupted with side vendettas and the evidence is always transparent (which it isn't quite yet, but will be soon). Everyone is entitled to their opinion however.
abcd [18646] · #31

After looking through your list I recognize multiple names, which means nothing. Point buying and mugging shouldn't be included. You're putting yourself out as a target selling large quantities of points at once without self hosping or getting mug protection. Same goes with item market purchases. Bazaar buy mugging is also something I don't feel bad about and I've had it happen to me. Get mug protection, self hosp or fly. All are ways to avoid being mugged.



Personally I think trade cancelling is a real low move, these people should be avoided. Everything else should be prepared for via Mug Protection, or self hosp.
Ho-Bag [107548] · #32

Agreed ABCD. I have been "Buy Mugged" from plenty of people and it taught me not to sell big ticket items without hosping myself or traveling. How is putting my name on a list going to help protect people from me buying things on their bazaar and mugging them? It seems like 99% of the time, I get nothing from the mug anyways. Im not sure why, but I guess torn changed their mugging mechanics.



I also agree that cancelling a trade and then mugging is a low blow; one that I have never done.



How else are people supposed to make money from mugging besides making random hits on random people. Get over yourselves, you crybabies.
DMoneyGetta [2021215] · #33

Both of you have good points. Would love to hear more opinions on it.



Update: Removed Evidence from loveu2(https://imgur.com/x5CguV0). Simply doesn't fit her profile, and for a notorious high value mugger, mugging for 4m is extremely petty that doesn't really sound like her.

I'm going to be removing a lot of these names for lack of proper evidence eventually, I just need time to revamp the list.
Abdullah [2063435] · #39

If not these, there will always be other buy muggers to replace these. Always... Stop with the naming and shaming. I can spend a day gathering some info and list at least 100+ active buy muggers in TORN. Can you blacklist all of them? No. Should you be looking for other ways to protect your money in a crime based game rather than whining about it? Yepp

You cannot expect to put a few 100 mil worth stuff in bazaar and just not do anything to protect your $$$. Unless of course you're really strong and there are barely a few players in the game who can beat you, and they won't bother.

Bring the downrates...
Abdullah [2063435] · #40

If anyone wants to see all the pussies of this game at one place, here u go.

Lmao hit my karma now...and play farmville if you can't hide your money ffs