Bigotry?

Republicans are often called bigots (or racist, sexist etc.) for their political views, and I can see you all hate it! Here is a very well thought out article that outlines what both sides of the political spectrum can do to improve the situation of bigotry and political correctness. Hopefully this can spark a more open discussion. Here is something that I think is a key point:

"These different reactions stem, in part, from different definitions of bigotry. Conservatives tend to define it in terms of intention: Youre guilty of bigotry if youre trying to harm people because of their race, gender, or the like. Liberals are more likely to define it in terms of impact: Youre guilty if your actions disadvantage an already disadvantaged group, irrespective of your motives."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/conservatism-without-bigotry/544128/

Nature abhors a vacuum as does society.

We're currently living in a god-shaped hole into which all of history is rushing and colliding with a future that is calling in its debts. In a time governed by feeling and a search for meaning, identity is twisted around these ephemerals and is used to atomise society into an infinite spectrum so diluted as to be meaningless.

Individuals without a grounding of family, community, free association, custom and culture become instead new creatures, gasping for air from anyone who'll provide it. Terrified of being cast aside in this new hunt for the self, the media and politicos suffocate us with the offer (gleefully accepted) to validate all states of being, thereby offering no cohesion or direction whatsoever and further eroding the self.

With no one or where to govern, the nation dissolves to pollute the minds and lands from which it was born. To have an identity here is to scream with enough force that you are heard in this miasma of white noise we have wrought.

Not sure how this relates to the topic, but you are sort of right about some things. If you want to chat more start a new thread, but in the end it seems like you are just trying to sound smart without really contributing anything.

Shall I quote a magazine instead?

theres different types of conservationism, and liberalism. each nation has different versions. ied even bet that British conservatives would scoff at american conservatives.

but check out how this former republican congressmen deals with trolls on twitter



[image: pbs.twimg.com]

a whole group or just one person from that group? seems pretty "liberal" of a definition if you ask me. pushing laws, or taking actions to improve ones position in business can often result in putting others in a disadvantageous position, hell its the name of the game really. its why rich people are pushing this "be lazy and get shit" agenda as it ensures you will never take their power away by being dependent on their position of power.

if intentional actions are done without the consideration of race, gender, etc. I'm not sure how you could label it as bigotry. just because the outcome may in fact harm those of minorities doesn't mean it doesn't harm others not in the minority groups. to me that's like saying employing minorities makes you a bigot since it improves your position over them by earning more money than they do. sorry, but ill need a bit of an explanation on that one.

here are a couple more:

does wanting illegal immigrants to become legal immigrants make me a bigot? am I expected to allow them to ignore the law since life is hard for them?

what about expecting immigrants to be able to read and speak English in the US?

what about expecting immigrants to pay income tax?

what about expecting citizens to obey the law regardless of the shitty environment they were born in?

what about expecting citizens to obey the police?

keep in mind all of these question applies to everyone regardless of race, gender, etc.

here is a question for liberals.

Does the skin color or ethnic background, gender, sexual orientation, etc. allow for the excusal of any law or the extension of forgiveness that isn't allowed or extended in most cases? if so, you might be the bigots.

l wouldn't say those questions are bigoted, but ied say they are stupid questions to be asking.

and yet expecting those things is often seen as bigoted....I mean how dare we expect everyone to follow the same rules

i dont think stupid SJW's on twitter dictate our morale compass lol. bigoted is just the wrong word.

its not confined to SJWs on social media. if you think that's the case you might want to open your eyes a bit. hell Trump wants tighter immigration laws and he is a bigot according to every liberal and their leaning media outlets all over. hell he is "literally Hitler" ffs.

For argument's sake: why does it matter if they speak English?

If an immigrant finds work in their native language and contributes like that, would that bother you?

I do agree that it can go both ways too. Measures to "counter bigotry" are often just as bigoted. Basing anything on country of origin, colour of skin or whatever else you can label people with, ignoring the individual, is the mark of a bigot I'd say.

idk man, i think its all bs personally. i dont care what any news outlet says. i dont get why people care so much what other people say. why should i care if over 9000 people say trumps hitler? normal americans really dont care that much about this stuff. they too busy working their whole lifes living pay check to pay check, or partying, raising familys. they dont really care whose president. or if someone says mean things lol

if they are visiting, then it doesn't. however if they plan on staying it makes communicating much easier and not just for those who already live here. there are very few truly disadvantaged groups in the US imo. one of them though is immigrants who do not know the laws and their rights. a great deal of it is due to the lack of communication skills from not understanding the language. its why I want illegals legal. not just so they can pay taxes but also so they aren't abused by those looking to exploit them. being illegal and not speaking English seriously diminishes their ability to enjoy the "American dream". it puts them in a position to be exploited and unlikely to do anything about it empowering those in power who wish to use them as a soap box to stand on allowing a lot of our major current issues to continue.

then there is the arguments, the things they often resort to when desperate due to being ill equipped, amongst many other things that a real lack of communication brings. unfortunately the US isn't at the same point as Europe is and there are few multilingual people here. hopefully that changes but for now...

I'd say that such verbal attacks are a tried and tested method to wear down an opponent when you have not a valid reasoned argument.

The use of the terms racist, anti-Semite, homophobic, etc., are incredibly over used. Same with fascist.

Ironic to see where the mass of intolerance exists in North America.

very true. once people call me a racist online for saying black people are ungrateful. i try to explain to them its not really racist. because not all black people are ungrateful. that would be racist, and thats just not true. stupid liberals just dont get it. besides even south africans hate ungrateful black americans.

i just hate how i cant talk about slackers and freeloaders in my own country without people bringing race into it. trying to call me all these names. talking about bigot and racist. ive heard it so many times now. its incredibly over used.

Edit: just pointing out what we are dealing with. i dont actually believe any of this

@Quick... I thought the article raised interesting points and valid ones to boot.

Both sides need to compromise if there is to be progress, but I am not sure if the compromise needs to be more or less intention based, or more or less emotive based. If the intention is to make things as fair as possible for all, and we mix in as much compassion as possible without degrading the fairness (we should all know intuitively that life is not fair, so that needs to be part of the calculus), then that should be the goal, but we also need to stop constantly moving the goal posts.

At any rate... good article. Thanks for sharing it.

On topic and timely, here is a perfect example of what your article points out:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/07/aclu-scolds-taylor-swift-for-effort-to-protect-reputation/?hpid=hp_hp-morning-mix_mm-swift%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e06d1c149df4

First, did you read the article? The point was about how we can try to create a better political discourse. There are two parts to that, liberals not jumping to the "bigot" conclusion, and conservatives not being bigoted.

Your second point "if intentional actions are done without the consideration of race, gender, etc. I'm not sure how you could label it as bigotry.", that is the point of what I quoted in the first post on this thread. To me, it is pretty obvious why that is bigotry. If you don't think through the consequences of your actions and do something that causes disproportionate harm to a group that has been disproportionately harmed throughout history, that is bigotry. But I will stop labeling it as bigotry and just try to explain the moral ramifications without attacking you so much.

Finally, your point about stepping on other people to get ahead being the "name of the game". I think that is pretty darn immoral. You don't have to cut someone else down to get ahead, and if you do, whatever line of work you are in shouldn't exist.

Yeah, the ACLU goes a little too far for me sometimes. They will defend your right to say anything, they defend Tiny Twig Trump and his far right supporters and they defend this crap. But at least they are consistent.

Thanks for your contribution, I agree. But I think your final point about moving the goal posts is wrong, we do need to continually move the goal posts and continually strive to get better. This applies to everything, and moral values are included.

Well why don't we just make Spanish an official language of the country? Then those problems would go away. There are plenty of countries with more than 1 official language.