MS-13

Leftists are actually debating in this thread if ms13 has human value or any value to society lol 

 

i personally think the gov should issue tags on illegals and ms13 and allow us to hunt them just like the gov issues tags on other invasive species ;)

Funny, I think the same about Antifa and Alt-Right Nazi wannabe's.

Guess we can't all get what we want, huh?

this how the police see drug money

 

YouTube video ipHUN-xLLms

alt right is lame its all about that alt riech now days

There you go... 

Tell me what you really think.

Tell me your _Truth_!

We can agree that people who cross illegally are criminals by the definition of a criminal as someone who commits a crime. But by that definition you and I and pretty much every other living human is a criminal. By labeling people as criminals you are trying to suggest that they are habitual criminals and likely to comit more crimes, which isnt true. Additionally, asylum seekers are not immigrating illegally, they are following the procedure set up for them. Sure, its a bad procedure, but they arent illegal immigrants, they are following the law. As far as if illegal immigrants should be rooted out, that is a more nuanced question because it costs a whole lot of money and probably isnt worth it.

I would love to have a meaninful discussion about immigration, but this thread is about setting the grounds for that discussion. Too many people on here let fear cloud their thinking and arent able to have any sort of discussion based on reality. I think you were getting close to being able to have a meaningful discussion, I saw you posting in another thread about how you didnt have a certain solution and just wanted to drink, presumabpy because that uncertainty made you uncomfortable. A real discussion of policy regarding immigration does not have certain answers and if you can be unafraid of immigrants and comfortable with uncertainty we can have a better discussion. Very few others in this forum are capable of that right now so I was trying to show them how fear is clouding their judgememt. Hopefully after their first inital anger they can calm down and see that. Remeber, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the dark side ;)

MS13 is a threat, and the problem has leaked into Canada, via the porous borders from Mexico north.

In areas of infection, martial law should be declared, and the military used to round up these folks with extreme prejudice.

many anti-immigrant groups have issues of concern relating to:

the misuse and abuse of asylum applications at taxpayer expense

the improper vetting of would be applicants

the flooding of areas with new arrivals of disparate cultures to the host.

the LCD impact on local health, education and worker conditions.

it has nothing to do with racism, or other forms of bigotry.

you can't have a meaningful discussion when you let it be known in your view we are all criminals, so there is no issue, other than a lack of humanity...

fear has nothing to do with my thinking.  straight forward decades inspired pragmatism and experience.  

sadly the fact is the vetting is poor and incomprehensibly trusted by others who like to quote numbers as if accurate reflections of reality.

I want to have meaningful discussions too.

We have a problem.

First step identify the problem.

The problem is that people want to come to the USA for whatever reason. Some do it legally. Others do it illegally. The ones who do it illegally and get caught are criminals. The reason doesn't matter. When one is caught doing illegal things one must pay the price. The price for illegally coming across our borders should be expulsion. When I am caught speeding (the only thing that I can think of that makes me a criminal... the one time I was caught speeding in 35 plus years of driving, I had to pay the penalty). All I am calling for is for the criminals in this situation to pay the penalty.

I know that there are lots of feel good stories involved, and feel bad stories for that matter. But those stories don't matter. 

We need to secure our borders, so that we can keep illegals out... it doesn't matter if they are MS 13, people claiming asylum, or whatever. If they take the decision to cross illegally, and they are caught, they automatically become criminals (if they are caught.) If so, they should be sent back as quickly as we can put them on a bus.

The only thing that makes me angry is that we (not you per se) can't just take the first simple step of identifying the simple problem we are talking about, because people on both sides want to mix in emotional arguments, and other minutia that is not really important.

Did person A cross the border illegally. Yes. Did person A get caught? Yes. Then person A must go back.

We can address the other stuff after we can get that simple bit correct. 

The other issue as I see it are jurisdictions, like Toronto, Ontario, Canada, claiming sanctuary status.  We know our border is porous and sooner or later these folks will show up seeking access to a social program, or a commit another crime.  Toronto is circumventing our means of protecting ourselves and our economy.

The main reason NDP lost, likely is due to their promise to declare the province of Ontario as a whole as a sanctuary province.

If a jurisdiction wants to make such a declaration, then perhaps they can do so on their own dime.  Want health care for these illegals, then take it from your property tax revenue.  Want to pay for the legal costs of supporting claimants seeking asylum, then again, raise the mil rates for residential and commercial properties.  Lets see just how quick the concept of sanctuary wears thin.

I get the importance of all the other stuff, but my point is that we can't even seem to agree in the USA about the core issue, and until we can agree on that much there is little hope of fixing the rest...

As we have seen for over 40 years of failed immigration policy.

As an American, all I can say to Canada is: Sorry.

a long time ago, I was working and living in the US.  I honestly had no clue about 'Green Cards' and immigration laws.  To me the US was like Canada.

I even used my Social Insurance Number in place of the US's Social Security Number on job applications.  The first day I got to LA I had a job, even though the unemployment rate was over 7%.  By the time shortly before I left I was working for a bank.  Bonded even after FBI vetting.

Then I started looking into this discussion many were having about illegal aliens (Phil Collins song).  I found out I too was an illegal.  I called INS (ICE) got info, went to my employer about sponsoring me.  Sadly they couldn't given plenty of local availability in the labour force and the unemployment numbers.  I voluntarily left on my own accord.  I was disappointed considerably, but I completely understood.

I've not made an attempt since to work in the US, and have only vacation travelled.  I would like to live in the US, but would only do so through the proper channels.

I respect the intent and spirit of the law, and would not at all feel comfortable attempting to manipulate those laws to secure residency.

The ends justifies the means, is something all too often utilized without any respect to the legal processes, and why laws were written in the manner they were.

At the same time I can appreciate the need for civil disobedience, however, in regards to immigration, its ill suited.

Technically, in the State of Texas, you are devoid of rights while in the commission of a crime. I'd like to see this applied to illegal border crossers. MS-13 sling drugs, kill people, but hey, they're not that bad. Forget about them. Let's focus on the real problem, their enablers!

YouTube video eFRHX6glTSM

We can certainly agree that people crossing the border illegally is a problem. The solution to that problem, however, is not cracking down and punishing people. First of all, there is little evidence that this actually works. The brutality of the Trump admisistration has not deterred illegal crossings (they remain on the same declining trend they have been on for the last 15 years). Second, it is really expensive so it places a large burden on the people who already live in the US. 

There are plenty of better solutions. The first step would be to make it much easier to come here legally. My wife and I had the absolute easiest way to get a green card as direct family members. It still took $6,000 in fees (we didnt even hire a lawyer, I was the "lawyer"), trips for interviews in 2 different Mexican states and 2 different American states, and a 6yar and a half of waiting. And that was for a clear cut family case with no issues. Regarding asylum seekers, it takes years to process the cases because we have funneled money into border patrol to find them, but no money into the EIOR who hires judges to adjudicate the cases. While asylum seekers are waiting they dont need to be detained, the Obama administration used tracking braclets and social workers to keep track of them and it was 99% effective and vastly cheaper than detention.

Many of the illegal immigrants are running from violence in Central America. We can reduce asylum seekers for much less money by giving aid to those countries. A USAID program cut the murder and extortion rates in half and found that for every 10 fewer murders there were 6 fewer children showing up at the US border. All for much less money than the archaic punishment systems being used by Republicans.

The soultions I presented here would be better for both people already living in the US and those who want to move here. 

Asylum seekers go through a process to get into our country legally - there's a specific process for them. So them skipping that process and coming here ILLEGALLY "Seeking Asylum" is bullshit. Stop making up excuses and looking for loop holes to our arguments here... you're not gunna win there. There is a process for everything... people who skip that process don't deserve to come here... i dont give a shit what problems they have. Cross the border illegally? Prepare to deal with the consequences, whatever they may be. It's black and white, it's really that simple. 

i dont know the exact figures on what illegal immigration costs but i assume it runs into the billions so i say put bounties up on any illegal in the usa to find them and payout like 500 or 1000 a head then send them to work camps until they pay off that debt and all the other debts make them pay in blood and sweat and if they refuse throw them into the hole until they mentally break and sell the cheap goods they produce and dump them on the Chinese market or some shit well be competing with china in no time i think and beat there ass in trade with these wonderful beautiful types of winning deal policy's and when there free deport them :)

 

ironic this is all legal also indebted slavery is still applicable under usa law and code they just need to be in prison flag them under the same house and umbrella of laws and bobs your uncle we turn these ****ers into slaves if its good enough for our own citzens its deff good enough for them dont forget we feed them tepee its not even good enough for livestock consumption but good enough for prisoners so **** em also make breaking into the usa illegally 25 to life so basic they want to work so they get out fast as possible 

 

well tell the illegal immigrants work well set you free maybe well even setup a few of these jails like a human zoo and charge money for people to look at the animals working hard for our imperial future tell the kids who visit see what happens to our enemy's they kneel before us i doubt any ms13 gang banger would be acting tough ether for long under this type of policy he would be begging for mercy but we wouldn't care cause were getting productivity from this for our people treat these illegals like maruta aka logs not people

put simple these illegals want jobs i say give em jobs and they wont steal jobs from us cause well dump the shit they produce on the countrys who are stealing our jobs well make profit and weaponize these ****ers against our enemys in a economic war sense lol

Yep, and that process is: arrive to the united states and apply for asylum within one year of your arrival. They are not breaking any laws and I am not taking advantage of any loopholes in my arguments. https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum

My youngest sister married an MS 13 member years ago. He was actually a pretty nice guy and a hard worker. He got deported and she went to prison. True story.