Rule Change

Idk I thought the land of torn was lawless. The fact is no matter what ppl deem as a crime if a criminal wants to break the law he will further rules and strictures be damned.

I feel like we need to differentiate between a guy or a group running hundreds of accounts, making billions, involving RL money AND an actual new player who just commits a mistake once. 

I think perma fedding the account of the 2nd person is a bit too harsh. 

Probably the only reason why this hasn't been implemented yet is because staff/Ched will have to look at it case-by-case. Who is to determine that at this point onward, this player is "old" and would pretty well know the consequences of his actions, e.g a level 90 with 4b stats, AND a level 50 with 100m stats making his first mistake and not being too updated about the hype of multis.

Why not say this from your main account? :)

Definitely supporting the idea. Ban the main, delete all but the newest multis accounts.

What about all of the people caught for Multis in the past? Does this mean guys like Nath (other than the oil rig his multi gave to him being taken away) walk away free? Granted, his scam was with a single account, unlike MMCP who have been accused of far more, but if the rules are enforced I hope it’s the same for everyone. 

6 hours and 100 votes already.....

I think it's clear how the community feels on this issue.

More needs to be done.

I would like to see this happen retroactively as well

First thing there's the rule of retrospective incarceration, so to say. Which talks about that you can't hold someone responsible for breaking a rule before it was established, rule which is respected worldwide in the real world (was happily ignored in USSR back in the day but that's off topic)

In this case, perma-banning someone for multiaccounting in the past is debatable. Definitely remove all their accounts IF they are still known to have multis, as it would mean they are still breaking the rule.

If they no longer have multis at this time, we can give them the stink eye glares, but leave them be. What's done is done. We can't go all vigilante witch hunting. 

This would be to focus on present and future multis. We learn from the past. Or we SHOULD learn from the past.

114 likes in 7 hours. That has to be a record.

People are getting salty and just hospitalizing me lol

Hello, whilst we appreciate and understand your concern in matters like these I want to make it abundantly clear - Players will never dictate how the rules and punishments are given out based on popular vote - This is an extremely dangerous area to even begin to explore, this is always handed independently by admins and senior staff, most staff won't even get a say in matters such as these.

I do not support banning the main account, whilst I can see why people are asking for this, you have to remember that in the vast vast majority of multiple account cases the main account doesn't even see fed - They are warned due to 0 interactions, and in most of the rest the interaction is fairly minimal. This would have more negative impacts in Torn than positive.

The same people asking for consistency in the rules are the same people who are here asking for inconsistency in how a punishment is dealt with.

When a player is caught using multiple accounts their main account is stripped of all the financial gains they have acquired within it, potentially weeks, months or in some rare cases years of their work is removed in a single action by staff, the cheats get what is coming to them eventually and in many cases where there are large multi rings we DO 999 ban every account involved including the main, this goes without question when RMT is involved too and any hints that these banned players have returned results in them being instantly 999d.

Just blanket banning a country is not my preferred approach either, whilst again I understand the frustration (believe me, this takes up a lot of our time) this would not achieve a great deal other than just removing those who are not breaking the rules or those who are honest about it who we'd be catching anyway, those determined to cheat would just switch to VPNs and proxies if they aren't already (and we do actively catch those too - those of you in JFA already blame Stretch for spikes in can prices).

A lot of the suggestions in here we do already action the moment we are able. However we will not be adjusting the rules based on popular vote, whilst you might have one "popular" vote you deem good, there will just as easily be one in the future you deem less so, this is especially clear in faction matters.

Thank you.

What do you mean by "This is an extremely dangerous area to even begin to explore" ? Are you saying the players can not voice their opinion or ask questions on certain topics? If so could you provide me a list of things that we are not allowed to speak about?

 

The area I will not be exploring is allowing players to dictate what rules are changed purely based on popular vote, be that something such as making a game wide rule harsher or weaker to something regarding a single individual and how the players feel they should be handled. 

 

Players are always allowed to voice their opinions on any matter (within reason, if it becomes something that is just not welcome in the public areas of Torn then I will say so and we can discuss such things privately - However you are more than welcome to scrutinise me, I welcome it), staff/I will listen and make an independent judgement based on evidence presented and interpretation of a rule, you are more than welcome to discuss this topic just do not expect me to change the rules regarding it. I accept this is not what people are going to want to hear, but I am here to make unpopular calls too.

So basically you are acknowledging that it's ok, its going to happen anyway, we will continue to put a bandaid on the problem until Torn no longer makes enough money and shuts down. As for "This is an extremely dangerous area to even begin to explore", you are what planning to fed/ban the people that are voicing their thoughts/opinions/making suggestions, btw which are your subscribers, donator pack buyers, people that play the game as it was INTENTED. Now that is a "dangerous area you are exploring". IMHO

 I'm not even sure how you got that interpretation. That's basically the opposite of what I said.

Well that is all we are doing is voicing opinions and suggesting a change. We never dictated a thing. If I was able to do that MMCP would be deleted and all of the players with negative negative would of been gone without the need for this thread. It seems to me that Staff is attempting to scare people from voicing their opinion. 

Ok fair enough rules should not change based on popular opinion. I do not disagree on its premise. Still, this comes up a lot and the consensus is generally that multi punishment is not enough. Often staff will chime in and basically say what you just did.

People get banned for Multi and lose much more than many accounts ever see to begin with and sure a few billion in the negative will hurt but based on your own ruling there is no actual punishment. 

Ill gotten gains are removed and you get a little vacation. So if I start some multi's now and make say 10 billion before i'm caught all that really happened assuming you are caught is I got an interest free 10 billion dollar loan and a little more of a social life.

That actually sounds like an incentive to cheat not a reason to avoid it. 

That is the crux of the issue. Punishment is not enough and the only people who do not seem to share that view point are cheaters and staff. It's a disconnect and point of contention that truly does not need to exist. 

 

 

A player who has yet to interact with their multi and a player with a ring are very different people and those punishments should be different and it certainly should not be a few days off and a loan.

Edit: Sure, you say some rings are 999'd but the real issue still remains for those who do not fit that criteria the only thing that happens is they get a loan they are forced to pay back. It's weak and most agree, except staff which is strange from our perspective

 

Thank you for your input in this thread.

I think the majority of players who have posted in this thread are simply voicing their opinions and are not trying to dictate how rules and punishments are handled, by the way of a popular vote.

In my opinion, it is a very straight forward situation. If you're a multi, you should be permanently banned.  The punishments in place should deter players from breaking the rules. Here, however, you're condoning and even enabling multi accounts, through the lack of worthwhile punishments.

I understand that Torn would be a very different place, without the thousands of multis here and of course, donations would dip hugely too, but surely that's better than allowing cheats to run riot and make a mockery out of the rules you have in place?!

I would like to know why you don't support the banning of a main account, if a player has multi accounts?!

 

Interoperate it this way: staff will never publicly positively announce that this suggestion is gonna take place: taking raw user input would be dangerous. As Trainee says, "popular vote" is not how to get this specific suggestion passed: all you need is a mob mentality (like you have created on your thread) and it's pitchforks to catch every witch, even though innocents may be caught in the crossfire.

I have no desire to scare people from voicing their opinion (providing it's within the game rules/legality) so please don't think otherwise, I actively welcome players to voice their opinions.

 

However I also don't want there to be any misunderstanding in the way people think the rules are written, this I fully intend on being direct about.