You're saying the same thing I'm saying, only you're playing the role of Kellyanne and spinning it up Trumpian. You are saying Trump's not interested in war, I am not saying he's interested in war. You're rambling off a lot of TL;DR nonsense flexing to reinforce that which we both agree on: he's not interested in war.
However, I also see - and as I repeated above again, hope I'm wrong about - that there is no peaceful option anymore short of 100% American withdraw (this is what Kim wants as denuclearization) -- which you also refer to, "a vague promise to achieve the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."
Posted on 04:44:50 - 11/05/19 (3 hours ago) Post link copied to clipboardCopy post link This is why no other POTUS would give him the time of day ... NK had to straighten up BEFORE they were given anything .....
There's no putting the genie back in the bottle, KJU is well emboldened now that he's on the global stage and not below it. That entire area of topic is a minefield for Trump now, no matter which way he steps he's got one underfoot. Now he's either going to have to be the one to take war to Kim in contrast to his accusations about Obama and NK war; or else he's going to have to goad Kim into starting one that the rest of the world accepts -- and certainly two days inside of a week of tossing missiles is a step in that direction.
The only deals north korea has signed is NPT. The same deal that every single other nation out there has signed aside from some rogue nations with delusions of being chosen by god to rule all of earth of some such supremacist bs...
NPT in turn is (among other things) a commitment to eventually get rid of nuclear weapons. So yes N.Korea is committed to that same as us, russia, uk, france etc.. so we are waiting breathlessly for the us to dismantle all their own nuclear weapons before politely asking n. korea to follow suit.
I see the whole thing as a sort of smoke and mirrors thing going on. A lot of movements, all mostly illusion designed to give the impression of credible threat. Just for one moment drop the notion that any communication that occurs between any two people can be done in relative privacy. This is how deals are brokered. Who's to say that at some point, The North Korean president hasn't had private negotiations with U.S. president Trump.
Suppose the two of them agreed that if N. Korea could put on a convincing enough show, that the United States could somehow convince another country that they were in dire need of U.S. anti-missile defense systems. Next thing you know, private contractors have millions of dollars in sales, president A does his thing, president B follows through with his end of the deal.....
It's all just a big con game. and so far at least one country has bought into it. N Korea is desperate for money. Japan was desperate for an missile defense system, Trump was desperate for giving the appearance of a guy who can make things happen.
I don't wish bad things on the people of N. Korea. They have been through some 50-60 years of inept leadership. Fact is, the quality of leadership is so bad, perhaps the world court can recognise it for the crime it is. North Korea isn't competent enough to be a threat. The way technology is in present world we can no doubt trace the last seven possessors of a single note of currency. You can't tell me a major player like N. Korea can make any sort of move without an enormous number of parties being aware of it.
Basically, there are a sufficient number of check and balances in place that prevent an event from occuring. Other government agents would stop something really bad from occurring. N. Korea isn't about to set off a bomb, anytime, ever.
Well, I didn't expect all this lol. my extended thoughts:
NK will probably bow down in the face of imminent war. KJU's not dumb, he certainly aint crazy. He knows what a nuclear war, or any kind of war for that matter, would cause: destruction of SK, NK, and his own death. We have innumerable measures in place against a nuke attack, they don't. However, there IS one thing that could make it happen: China. They have nukes, and they just possibly could help NK in a war. There's always the chance Russia could too, but I think they want to start their own war.
With all due respect... I think maybe you have been in China too long.
USA used nukes to end WW II, and to send a message to USSR. At the time this action was hailed as a global victory. Now, in hindsight the USA is the global aggressor that should be feared by all?
Maybe you want to live in a world run by Putin, and Xi Jinping, because Trump is an idiot, but remember this... our idiot Trump will be gone in a few years one way or other, but Putin and Xi will still be in power, and both will still have their fingers on their respective buttons.
I think I'd have the same opinion regardless of where I live. I'm not at all anti-democracy (perhaps you've forgotten my views, not been here for a while) but I just get a little taste of vomit in my mouth when I read people from America talk about removing nukes from other countries. America is the only country I can think of where most (some?) of its citizens support both the idea and the past action of dropping nukes on other countries because the ends justify the means.
In Las Vegas I went to a nuclear bomb museum and the level of propaganda was far greater than any of the historical museums I've ever been to in China (a lot at this point). It was extremely one-sided and seemed outright boastful about destroying two cities and killing so many civilians.
The head might change but the body remains largely the same. Your schools worship your flag just as much as the Chinese or Russian schools do. You guys love your national anthem far more than the average person on the world does. Patriotism is as important in America as it ever has been. Perhaps it doesn't look creepy to you from within. For those of us peering in from outside, it does look a little creepy. Probably very much the same as how it seems for you peering into my little bubble.
My point isn't to bash America. I only want to say that if I were to bet money on who will be the next country to use a nuclear bomb against another nation, I'd bet on those that did it in the past whose citizens largely support said action and see no problem with it.
USA used nukes to end WW2? Is that really the information you are exposed to and believe?
This action was NEVER a "global victory"… it was a global disaster to anyone but the US government, the victory part is all US propaganda... I mean think about it.
The way you view power is twisted, simplified to unrealistic extremes and obviously influenced by the mainstream media.
Looking back at history - which of your mentioned countries is responsible for playing the "global policemen" and enforcing "justice" in other parts of the world?
Nope you not bashing Merica. Just telling it as it is. It is creepy and what Facist Nazi police state Germany did before WW2. They can miss me with all that propaganda BS. Coming from a vet against war, the only people that profit is a select few.
Vets against war and for peace. We are tired of dying for Israel and for the politicians. When the Politicians start fighting their own wars we probably would stop having them.
US should be the last country to tell another country to denuke or to not use nuclear weapons. They don't tell Israel to denuke.... I wonder why. It's like a lion telling a tiger it's a savage for eating meat. FOH with that mess
Don't forget the testing on the Marshall islands, giving the local population willingly radiation sickness.
"The Rongelap Atoll was coated with up to 2 cm (0.79 in) of snow-like irradiated calcium debris and ash over the entire island. Virtually all the inhabitants experienced severe radiation sickness, including itchiness, sore skin, vomiting, diarrhea, and fatigue. Their symptoms also included burning eyes and swelling of the neck, arms, and legs.[27][28] The inhabitants were forced to abandon the islands, leaving all their belongings, three days after the test. They were relocated to Kwajalein for medical treatment.[28][29][30] Six days after the Castle Bravo test, the U.S government set up a secret project to study the medical effects of the weapon on the residents of the Marshall Islands.[31] The United States was subsequently accused of using the inhabitants as medical research subjects, without obtaining their consent, to study the effects of nuclear exposure.[27] Until that time, the United States Atomic Energy Commission had given little thought to the potential impact of widespread fallout contamination and health and ecological impacts beyond the formally designated boundary of the test site. "
That’s right, if someone questions your beliefs, disengage.
The fact that many Americans think killing ~200,000 people with two bombs is justifiable is creepy. The fact they somehow trust their government to be the police on nuclear weapons is creepy. Support your soldiers by all means. Supporting the amount of military spending and global meddling is creepy.
A military parade in Pyongyang is creepy. The same back home isn’t. Ever wondered why that is?
have you ever heard of the story of the discovery of soap cat? the first soap was made from the fat of 10's of thousands of human sacrifices. that act. their sacrifice. has gone on to save billions of people's lives.
those people were heroes. those people did more for this world then you, and i will ever do in 100 years.
US vs Japan lead to the whole world agreeing to never use nukes again. as horrible as that is.
It's the truth. You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap.
Think of the first monkeys we sent to space. Everything we have is because the sacrifice of others. Without pain. Without sacrifice. We would have nothing.
it would be much more morbid, and twisted for us to ignore that.
I was talking in general. Wasnt even speaking on the subject of dropping nuclear bombs... but since were talking about it...
We gave Japan FAIR warning, that if they did not surrender unconditionally, that we would absolutely decimate them. The exact wording was "Prompt and utter destruction". Japan chose to ignore it... and America (with the consent of the UK... they are equally as accountable, as the bomb couldnt/wouldnt have been dropped otherwise) followed through on their promise.
So if im placing direct blame for 200,000 Japanese deaths, im placing it on the Japanese, who not only killed an estimated 3-10million people during WW2, but also were told to surrender or face the consequences... and chose to face the consequences.
and here we are, over 70 years later, and not a single nuclear attack since. The example that was set by the first nukes, and the fear of retaliatory strikes, has kept nuclear arms at bay for nearly a century after their conception. Would that have been the case without the actions of the Allies in WW2? I cant say for sure... but im going to assume not,
I mean, if you really want to talk about America, its government, and its military doing creepy things, lets talk about operation gladio, or operation condor. But as far as how we dealt with Japan in WW2, i feel no qualms about doing exactly what we told them we would do, if they did not surrender.
edit: changed 1 word. Context clues dont matter much anymore i guess >_>