That's not the same thing.
USA - terroristic state
Started by Zucchero [2279031] on in General Non-related.
Posts archived: 54 / 54 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
How is not the same? Manipulation of action by use of emotion. Fear is only one.
Its common knowledge that the Army had intelligence that would have given fair warning about Pearl Harbor, but that information was withheld from the Admiral who could have prevented it. If you don't think that was deilberate, think again. The President knew that entering the war would only be universally popular if America was attacked first, if and only if Japan was the unquestioned aggressor. G.I. Joe was there to save the day! Hitler and Japanese Emperor were laid to waste. The sacred tradition of honoring a divine Emperor was stripped from the Japanese people by the terms and conditions of surrender, and Americans today have the audacity to talk about respecting other cultures? They do not honor an enemy or a defeated nation. They brutally punish and humiliate them. You let them do that to the Japanese, put them in camps. It was a practice run. You could be next.
That was just the first step, my friend.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
Republicans believe in freedom and small government, right? They say they do.
Wait a second, in the aftermath of 9/11 didn't the Patriot Act take away most of the last vestiges of American freedom? You're darn right it did.
Despite that it was public knowledge that Bushes were a Bonesman, they kept getting elected. Who do you think Kennedy was trying to warn you about?
Do you see where this is going?
America's entire election system is designed to allow for special interests who fund politicians. Advertising works. What about the people of Kuwait, who are now becoming morbidly obese because of American companies like McDonald's? They get what they want, all the way around. Rinse, repeat. This has been going on for a long time. George Washington warned against political parties, but now throwing the bums out only brings in a set of bigger bums.
I'm sorry, but its time to take off the blinders.
Its common knowledge that the Army had intelligence that would have given fair warning about Pearl Harbor, but that information was withheld from the Admiral who could have prevented it. If you don't think that was deilberate, think again. The President knew that entering the war would only be universally popular if America was attacked first, if and only if Japan was the unquestioned aggressor. G.I. Joe was there to save the day! Hitler and Japanese Emperor were laid to waste. The sacred tradition of honoring a divine Emperor was stripped from the Japanese people by the terms and conditions of surrender, and Americans today have the audacity to talk about respecting other cultures? They do not honor an enemy or a defeated nation. They brutally punish and humiliate them. You let them do that to the Japanese, put them in camps. It was a practice run. You could be next.
That was just the first step, my friend.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
Republicans believe in freedom and small government, right? They say they do.
Wait a second, in the aftermath of 9/11 didn't the Patriot Act take away most of the last vestiges of American freedom? You're darn right it did.
Despite that it was public knowledge that Bushes were a Bonesman, they kept getting elected. Who do you think Kennedy was trying to warn you about?
Do you see where this is going?
America's entire election system is designed to allow for special interests who fund politicians. Advertising works. What about the people of Kuwait, who are now becoming morbidly obese because of American companies like McDonald's? They get what they want, all the way around. Rinse, repeat. This has been going on for a long time. George Washington warned against political parties, but now throwing the bums out only brings in a set of bigger bums.
I'm sorry, but its time to take off the blinders.
Not sure why when I read the bit about every rectangle being a square my brain was reading triangle, and I was about to call bullshit, but then my brain snapped back into proper alignment and I got it, lol.
On topic:
I can see how the USA could be seen by some people as a terrorist state. I don't agree, but I can see how the case could be made.
On topic:
I can see how the USA could be seen by some people as a terrorist state. I don't agree, but I can see how the case could be made.
Common knowledge that there could be an attack sure, but as to the the conspiracy theory of Pearl Harbor being known before hand, and allowed to happen... not so much, but good stuff for conspiracy fiction, but unlikely and considered nothing more than a fringe theory by historians.
"Americans today have the audacity to talk about respecting other cultures? They do not honor an enemy or a defeated nation. They brutally punish and humiliate them."
And then Americans spent billions and billions helping rebuild those nations (Japan and Germany), and helping them create one the most successful post war economies and societies... f**k America right? What a bunch of hate mongers.
Revisionist history is revisionist history, and conspiracy theories are chock full of bits and pieces of truth, but that doesn't make them true.
"Americans today have the audacity to talk about respecting other cultures? They do not honor an enemy or a defeated nation. They brutally punish and humiliate them."
And then Americans spent billions and billions helping rebuild those nations (Japan and Germany), and helping them create one the most successful post war economies and societies... f**k America right? What a bunch of hate mongers.
Revisionist history is revisionist history, and conspiracy theories are chock full of bits and pieces of truth, but that doesn't make them true.
After many positions analyzed, and decades of life, I've come to realize true freedom (as near as it exists on this Sol orbiting insane asylum), can only be found in the US. Not even Canada can equate equally to the freedoms enjoyed by the citizens of the USA.
I support the US. However, I will continue to be critical where I view it deserved.
I support the US. However, I will continue to be critical where I view it deserved.
In Day of Deceit, Robert Stinnett delivers the definitive final chapter on America's greatest secret and our worst military disaster.
Drawing on twenty years of research and access to scores of previously classified documents, Stinnett proves that Pearl Harbor was not an accident, a mere failure of American intelligence, or a brilliant Japanese military coup. By showing that ample warning of the attack was on FDR's desk and, furthermore, that a plan to push Japan into war was initiated at the highest levels of the U.S. government, he ends up profoundly altering our understanding of one of the most significant events in American history.
Robert Stinnett served in the United States Navy from 1942 to 1946, where he earned ten battle stars and a Presidential Unit Citation. He is the author of George Bush: His World War II Years. Before devoting himself to writing Day of Deceit, he was a photographer and journalist for the Oakland Tribune. He is a consultant on the Pacific War for the BBC, Asahi Television, and NHK Television in Japan. He lives in Oakland, California.
Chapter One: The Biggest Story of My Life
Washington
December 8, 1941
About 1:00 A.M.
Edward R. Murrow couldn't sleep. His wife, Janet, watched him pace in their hotel room. He was chain-smoking. Murrow, the CBS radio newsman, had just returned from a midnight meeting with President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the White House. Japan's carrier and submarine raid on Pearl Harbor had taken place twelve hours earlier, and the full impact of the military disaster was slowly sinking in for FDR and the American people.
During their twenty-five-minute discussion in the second-floor Oval Study, the President provided Murrow with something -- we will never know exactly what -- that any reporter would kill for. That night he told his wife, "It's the biggest story of my life, but I don't know if it's my duty to tell it or forget it." Long after the war ended, Murrow was asked about this meeting by author-journalist John Gunther. After a long pause, Murrow replied: "That story would send Casey Murrow through college, and if you think I'm going to give it to you, you're out of your mind."
Earlier in the week, the Murrows had accepted a personal dinner invitation from the Roosevelts. First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt personally prepared, cooked, and served supper for two dozen guests. Her specialty was scrambled eggs and sausage, cooked in an electric chafing dish that sat atop a long buffet table in the family dining room. It was the invariable menu. Since the regular White House staff was given Sunday off, she did the cooking while the President mixed the cocktails.
After he heard the first news flashes about the Pearl Harbor raid, Murrow checked with the White House to see if the supper was still on. Told that it was, he and Janet then walked across Lafayette Park, crossed Pennsylvania Avenue, and entered the mansion through the North Portico. After the Murrows were ushered into the dining room, Mrs. Roosevelt explained that the President was meeting with congressional leaders and military officers and could not join them for supper.
Outside on Pennsylvania Avenue a small crowd had gathered. The White House was ablaze with light. No one inside the mansion thought to pull the window shades or institute blackouts on the first day of war -- that would came later. An Associated Press photographer took a picture from Lafayette Park. It shows a window in the family dining room with a silhouette of a tall figure -- probably the First Lady -- presiding over her scrambled eggs.
During the dinner, White House chief usher Howell Crim asked Murrow to remain for an informal meeting with FDR. After Janet Murrow returned to their hotel, her husband went to the second floor and waited outside Roosevelt's Oval Study -- not to be confused with the Oval Office -- in the West Wing of the White House. Soon Murrow was joined by William "Wild Bill" Donovan, Roosevelt's Coordinator of Information and later founder of the wartime Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA.
Donovan had not been present at dinner but had been summoned by the President from New York, where he had been watching a football game at the Polo Grounds. Football fans heard an unusual announcement over the public address system about 2:30 that afternoon: "Colonel William Donovan, come to the box office at once. There is an important phone message." The message was from James Roosevelt, the President's son and a member of Donovan's staff; he told Donovan about the Japanese attack.
Throughout the evening of December 7, Roosevelt conferred with congressional and military leaders. He decided his first wartime move would come the next morning, December 8, when he would ask Congress to declare that a state of war existed between Japan and the United States. He prepared a rough draft of what later became his "Day of Infamy" speech. Then he invited Murrow and Donovan into the study for a midnight snack of sandwiches and cold beer. Chief Usher Crim noted that the three men spent twenty-five minutes together in the study before Roosevelt retired to his adjoining bedroom. Crim's arrival and departure notations in the Usher Book comprise the only official record; there were no official minutes of the meeting.
Only Donovan has hinted at what went on: the conversation was mostly about public reaction to the attack. He sensed that this was FDR's overriding concern. In 1953, while he served as ambassador to Thailand, Donovan disclosed the details of the meeting to his executive assistant, William J. vanden Heuvel, who summarized the recollections in his diary. The President asked Murrow and Donovan whether they thought the attack was a clear case of a first Japanese move that would unite Americans behind a declaration of war against the Axis powers. Both guests thought it would indeed have that effect.
Donovan believed that Roosevelt welcomed the attack and that it was less of a surprise to him than it was to others in the White House. FDR claimed he sent an advance warning to Pearl Harbor that an attack by Japan was imminent. "They caught our ships like lame ducks! Lame ducks, Bill. We told them, at Pearl Harbor and everywhere else, to have the lookouts manned. But they still took us by surprise."
Still not convinced that America's isolationist sentiments would change after this attack, FDR then read to the two men from a message he had received from a British Foreign Office official, T. North Whitehead: "The dictator powers have presented us with a united America." Roosevelt wondered whether Whitehead's assessment was correct. Again he asked, would America now support a declaration of war? Donovan and Murrow again replied in the affirmative.
Whitehead was an influential member of the Foreign Office and an advisor to Prime Minister Winston Churchill on matters affecting America's aid to the British in 1940 and 1941. He evaluated American public opinion and "read" FDR's mind for the Prime Minister. In written comments to Churchill in the fall of 1940, Whitehead had warned of continued United States isolationism, but predicted it could be overcome: "America is not in the bag. However, the President is engaged in carefully calculated steps to give us full assistance."
Several years later Murrow made a brief, circumspect broadcast that in part addressed the question of what the President had known before the Japanese hit Pearl Harbor. According to Murrow's biographer Ann Sperber, "The broadcast itself was a response to an article by John Chamberlain in LIFE magazine charging Roosevelt with foreknowledge of the attack. Murrow did not believe it and said so on the air, making it clear that he had only his instinct to go on."
In the end, Murrow's big story remained unwritten and unbroadcast. Sperber believed that the meeting concerned damage reports. Whatever it was, it weighed heavily on Murrow's mind. "But he couldn't forget it either, blaming himself at times thereafter for not going with the story, never determining to his satisfaction where his duties lay that night or what had been in the subtle mind of FDR," Sperber wrote. Murrow took the story to his grave. He died April 7, 1965, two days past his fifty-seventh birthday.
Had FDR revealed something that night about his foreknowledge? Damage reports emerged immediately in local Hawaii papers, though the full details of the American losses were not released to the nation's news media until December 16, 1941, by Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox. He confirmed the initial report by the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. Secretary Knox named the seven warships sunk: USS Arizona, USS Utah, USS Oklahoma, USS Cassin, USS Downes, USS Shaw, and USS Oglala. He said the human toll on Oahu was 2897 Americans killed, 879 wounded, and 26 missing. There was severe damage to the Army's aircraft and hangars on Oahu. Knox said the Japanese planes came from aircraft carriers and had the "most tremendously detailed" information of the naval layout at Pearl Harbor. He listed Japan's losses at forty-one planes shot down, and disclosed the American capture of a Japanese two-man midget submarine that had gone aground on an Oahu beach and the sinking of four other Japanese midget subs.
Once the nation's news media reported the attack details on December 16, 1941, there was no "big story" left to report on the main events at Pearl Harbor. None -- except speculation about Roosevelt's foreknowledge. Certain words and phrases cited by Donovan hinted at what he and Murrow were told by FDR. William vanden Heuvel's diary, according to author Anthony Cave Brown, is tantalizing: "The President's surprise was not as great as that of other men around him. Nor was the attack unwelcome. It had ended the past months of uncertainty caused by FDR's decision that Japan must be seen to make the first overt move."
Any conclusion about the Murrow meeting must remain speculative, because the participants refused to tell the story. However, there are many more direct pieces of evidence from the days and weeks leading up to December 7 that put the question of FDR's foreknowledge definitively to rest. Previous accounts have claimed that the United States had not cracked Japanese military codes prior to the attack. We now know this is wrong. Previous accounts have insisted that the Japanese fleet maintained strict radio silence. This, too, is wrong. The truth is clear: FDR knew.
The real question is even more intriguing: did he deliberately provoke the attack? Were there earlier covert moves by the United States? According to a secret strategy memo, dated October 7, 1940, and adopted by the President, there were.
Copyright © 2000 by Robert B. Stinnett
----------------------------------------------------------
(Bolded text mine, I doubt anyone but WW2 buffs want to read all that, but still, he makes a pretty solid case.)
Even if you doubt the credibility of the above book, despite its thorough presentation and supportive evidence, all one has to do is consider that the embargos made against Japan by the United States were calculated to escalate tensions and provoke an attack. If you don't want to believe that this was calculated by big-money interests who controlled U.S. politics even then, fine.
The fact remains that the precedent established during WW2 concerning detainment of individuals by race and ethnicity (in this case Japanese and German, respectively) was upheld by the Supreme Court. A similar circumstance exists in the U.K, which did much the same thing. All you have to do is see the progression.
Even today, Japan remains a protectorate of the United States, still not being allowed to maintain its own military force or nuclear capability. Donald Trump received massive support from the Japanese community for his campaign promise to allow Japan nuclear capability. As for billions spent, how many billions in damages were caused to the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Those were civilian targets. Meanwhile what is happening to civilians in the United Statess?
Freedom doesn't exist in wartime.
With wars on Drugs and Terror, its always wartime.
Drawing on twenty years of research and access to scores of previously classified documents, Stinnett proves that Pearl Harbor was not an accident, a mere failure of American intelligence, or a brilliant Japanese military coup. By showing that ample warning of the attack was on FDR's desk and, furthermore, that a plan to push Japan into war was initiated at the highest levels of the U.S. government, he ends up profoundly altering our understanding of one of the most significant events in American history.
About the Author
Robert Stinnett served in the United States Navy from 1942 to 1946, where he earned ten battle stars and a Presidential Unit Citation. He is the author of George Bush: His World War II Years. Before devoting himself to writing Day of Deceit, he was a photographer and journalist for the Oakland Tribune. He is a consultant on the Pacific War for the BBC, Asahi Television, and NHK Television in Japan. He lives in Oakland, California.
Excerpt. © Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.
Chapter One: The Biggest Story of My Life
Washington
December 8, 1941
About 1:00 A.M.
Edward R. Murrow couldn't sleep. His wife, Janet, watched him pace in their hotel room. He was chain-smoking. Murrow, the CBS radio newsman, had just returned from a midnight meeting with President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the White House. Japan's carrier and submarine raid on Pearl Harbor had taken place twelve hours earlier, and the full impact of the military disaster was slowly sinking in for FDR and the American people.
During their twenty-five-minute discussion in the second-floor Oval Study, the President provided Murrow with something -- we will never know exactly what -- that any reporter would kill for. That night he told his wife, "It's the biggest story of my life, but I don't know if it's my duty to tell it or forget it." Long after the war ended, Murrow was asked about this meeting by author-journalist John Gunther. After a long pause, Murrow replied: "That story would send Casey Murrow through college, and if you think I'm going to give it to you, you're out of your mind."
Earlier in the week, the Murrows had accepted a personal dinner invitation from the Roosevelts. First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt personally prepared, cooked, and served supper for two dozen guests. Her specialty was scrambled eggs and sausage, cooked in an electric chafing dish that sat atop a long buffet table in the family dining room. It was the invariable menu. Since the regular White House staff was given Sunday off, she did the cooking while the President mixed the cocktails.
After he heard the first news flashes about the Pearl Harbor raid, Murrow checked with the White House to see if the supper was still on. Told that it was, he and Janet then walked across Lafayette Park, crossed Pennsylvania Avenue, and entered the mansion through the North Portico. After the Murrows were ushered into the dining room, Mrs. Roosevelt explained that the President was meeting with congressional leaders and military officers and could not join them for supper.
Outside on Pennsylvania Avenue a small crowd had gathered. The White House was ablaze with light. No one inside the mansion thought to pull the window shades or institute blackouts on the first day of war -- that would came later. An Associated Press photographer took a picture from Lafayette Park. It shows a window in the family dining room with a silhouette of a tall figure -- probably the First Lady -- presiding over her scrambled eggs.
During the dinner, White House chief usher Howell Crim asked Murrow to remain for an informal meeting with FDR. After Janet Murrow returned to their hotel, her husband went to the second floor and waited outside Roosevelt's Oval Study -- not to be confused with the Oval Office -- in the West Wing of the White House. Soon Murrow was joined by William "Wild Bill" Donovan, Roosevelt's Coordinator of Information and later founder of the wartime Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner of the CIA.
Donovan had not been present at dinner but had been summoned by the President from New York, where he had been watching a football game at the Polo Grounds. Football fans heard an unusual announcement over the public address system about 2:30 that afternoon: "Colonel William Donovan, come to the box office at once. There is an important phone message." The message was from James Roosevelt, the President's son and a member of Donovan's staff; he told Donovan about the Japanese attack.
Throughout the evening of December 7, Roosevelt conferred with congressional and military leaders. He decided his first wartime move would come the next morning, December 8, when he would ask Congress to declare that a state of war existed between Japan and the United States. He prepared a rough draft of what later became his "Day of Infamy" speech. Then he invited Murrow and Donovan into the study for a midnight snack of sandwiches and cold beer. Chief Usher Crim noted that the three men spent twenty-five minutes together in the study before Roosevelt retired to his adjoining bedroom. Crim's arrival and departure notations in the Usher Book comprise the only official record; there were no official minutes of the meeting.
Only Donovan has hinted at what went on: the conversation was mostly about public reaction to the attack. He sensed that this was FDR's overriding concern. In 1953, while he served as ambassador to Thailand, Donovan disclosed the details of the meeting to his executive assistant, William J. vanden Heuvel, who summarized the recollections in his diary. The President asked Murrow and Donovan whether they thought the attack was a clear case of a first Japanese move that would unite Americans behind a declaration of war against the Axis powers. Both guests thought it would indeed have that effect.
Donovan believed that Roosevelt welcomed the attack and that it was less of a surprise to him than it was to others in the White House. FDR claimed he sent an advance warning to Pearl Harbor that an attack by Japan was imminent. "They caught our ships like lame ducks! Lame ducks, Bill. We told them, at Pearl Harbor and everywhere else, to have the lookouts manned. But they still took us by surprise."
Still not convinced that America's isolationist sentiments would change after this attack, FDR then read to the two men from a message he had received from a British Foreign Office official, T. North Whitehead: "The dictator powers have presented us with a united America." Roosevelt wondered whether Whitehead's assessment was correct. Again he asked, would America now support a declaration of war? Donovan and Murrow again replied in the affirmative.
Whitehead was an influential member of the Foreign Office and an advisor to Prime Minister Winston Churchill on matters affecting America's aid to the British in 1940 and 1941. He evaluated American public opinion and "read" FDR's mind for the Prime Minister. In written comments to Churchill in the fall of 1940, Whitehead had warned of continued United States isolationism, but predicted it could be overcome: "America is not in the bag. However, the President is engaged in carefully calculated steps to give us full assistance."
Several years later Murrow made a brief, circumspect broadcast that in part addressed the question of what the President had known before the Japanese hit Pearl Harbor. According to Murrow's biographer Ann Sperber, "The broadcast itself was a response to an article by John Chamberlain in LIFE magazine charging Roosevelt with foreknowledge of the attack. Murrow did not believe it and said so on the air, making it clear that he had only his instinct to go on."
In the end, Murrow's big story remained unwritten and unbroadcast. Sperber believed that the meeting concerned damage reports. Whatever it was, it weighed heavily on Murrow's mind. "But he couldn't forget it either, blaming himself at times thereafter for not going with the story, never determining to his satisfaction where his duties lay that night or what had been in the subtle mind of FDR," Sperber wrote. Murrow took the story to his grave. He died April 7, 1965, two days past his fifty-seventh birthday.
Had FDR revealed something that night about his foreknowledge? Damage reports emerged immediately in local Hawaii papers, though the full details of the American losses were not released to the nation's news media until December 16, 1941, by Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox. He confirmed the initial report by the Honolulu Star-Bulletin. Secretary Knox named the seven warships sunk: USS Arizona, USS Utah, USS Oklahoma, USS Cassin, USS Downes, USS Shaw, and USS Oglala. He said the human toll on Oahu was 2897 Americans killed, 879 wounded, and 26 missing. There was severe damage to the Army's aircraft and hangars on Oahu. Knox said the Japanese planes came from aircraft carriers and had the "most tremendously detailed" information of the naval layout at Pearl Harbor. He listed Japan's losses at forty-one planes shot down, and disclosed the American capture of a Japanese two-man midget submarine that had gone aground on an Oahu beach and the sinking of four other Japanese midget subs.
Once the nation's news media reported the attack details on December 16, 1941, there was no "big story" left to report on the main events at Pearl Harbor. None -- except speculation about Roosevelt's foreknowledge. Certain words and phrases cited by Donovan hinted at what he and Murrow were told by FDR. William vanden Heuvel's diary, according to author Anthony Cave Brown, is tantalizing: "The President's surprise was not as great as that of other men around him. Nor was the attack unwelcome. It had ended the past months of uncertainty caused by FDR's decision that Japan must be seen to make the first overt move."
Any conclusion about the Murrow meeting must remain speculative, because the participants refused to tell the story. However, there are many more direct pieces of evidence from the days and weeks leading up to December 7 that put the question of FDR's foreknowledge definitively to rest. Previous accounts have claimed that the United States had not cracked Japanese military codes prior to the attack. We now know this is wrong. Previous accounts have insisted that the Japanese fleet maintained strict radio silence. This, too, is wrong. The truth is clear: FDR knew.
The real question is even more intriguing: did he deliberately provoke the attack? Were there earlier covert moves by the United States? According to a secret strategy memo, dated October 7, 1940, and adopted by the President, there were.
Copyright © 2000 by Robert B. Stinnett
----------------------------------------------------------
(Bolded text mine, I doubt anyone but WW2 buffs want to read all that, but still, he makes a pretty solid case.)
Even if you doubt the credibility of the above book, despite its thorough presentation and supportive evidence, all one has to do is consider that the embargos made against Japan by the United States were calculated to escalate tensions and provoke an attack. If you don't want to believe that this was calculated by big-money interests who controlled U.S. politics even then, fine.
The fact remains that the precedent established during WW2 concerning detainment of individuals by race and ethnicity (in this case Japanese and German, respectively) was upheld by the Supreme Court. A similar circumstance exists in the U.K, which did much the same thing. All you have to do is see the progression.
Even today, Japan remains a protectorate of the United States, still not being allowed to maintain its own military force or nuclear capability. Donald Trump received massive support from the Japanese community for his campaign promise to allow Japan nuclear capability. As for billions spent, how many billions in damages were caused to the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Those were civilian targets. Meanwhile what is happening to civilians in the United Statess?
Freedom doesn't exist in wartime.
With wars on Drugs and Terror, its always wartime.
Sorry, I don't see that as anything other than what I said... a good conspiracy chock full of truthful bits that still don't add up to the truth, because that is how conspiracies go. They tease with promise of answers, but never deliver. Decades and decades worth of historians hungry for a chance to tell a juicy story like that, and give the USA a black eye to boot, and yet nobody has been able to come up with hard evidence?
Like I said, FDR, and anybody with a brain surely knew that Japan would eventually try something, but knowing the details and allowing the vast majority of the Pacific fleet to be destroyed... nope. Sorry. It makes no sense, and the excerpt above even points that out:
"Donovan believed that Roosevelt welcomed the attack and that it was less of a surprise to him than it was to others in the White House. FDR claimed he sent an advance warning to Pearl Harbor that an attack by Japan was imminent. "They caught our ships like lame ducks! Lame ducks, Bill. We told them, at Pearl Harbor and everywhere else, to have the lookouts manned. But they still took us by surprise.""
I don't disagree about the detainment of individuals (sorry, but I think it was a prudent enough thing to do at the time given the situation), or the fact that big money interests are a driver for war. That has always been the case in human history, and it is not unique to the USA.
Wars on drugs and terror, I also agree are largely money making schemes.
Like I said, FDR, and anybody with a brain surely knew that Japan would eventually try something, but knowing the details and allowing the vast majority of the Pacific fleet to be destroyed... nope. Sorry. It makes no sense, and the excerpt above even points that out:
"Donovan believed that Roosevelt welcomed the attack and that it was less of a surprise to him than it was to others in the White House. FDR claimed he sent an advance warning to Pearl Harbor that an attack by Japan was imminent. "They caught our ships like lame ducks! Lame ducks, Bill. We told them, at Pearl Harbor and everywhere else, to have the lookouts manned. But they still took us by surprise.""
I don't disagree about the detainment of individuals (sorry, but I think it was a prudent enough thing to do at the time given the situation), or the fact that big money interests are a driver for war. That has always been the case in human history, and it is not unique to the USA.
Wars on drugs and terror, I also agree are largely money making schemes.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a397295.pdf
Aftermath
MAGIC provided Washington intelligence personnel and decision-makers with theirbest opportunity to provide early warning to U.S. commanders and forces in the Pacific.Other COMINT and HUMINT sources showed Japanese order of battle deployments andpreparations, but could not present a near-real-time picture of Japanese intentions.Although MAGIC never contained information that conclusively proved Japan would attack the United States or Pearl Harbor on December 7, there were adequate indications that something significant was going to happen on or around 1:00 P.M. that day. A comparison of the most important MAGIC messages reveals several trends, and when viewed in conjunction with each other, clearly indicates hostilities were imminent
From Wikipedia:
On May 25, 1999, the United States Senate, by a vote of 52–47, passed a non-binding resolution to exonerate Kimmel and Short and requested that the President of the United States posthumously restore both men to full rank.[19] Senator Strom Thurmond, one of the sponsors of the resolution, called Kimmel and Short "the two final victims of Pearl Harbor." The Senate enquiry in 2000 issued a lengthy exoneration of Kimmel's conduct.[24] President Clinton did not act on the resolution, nor has any of his successors.
--------------------------
As always bolding and italics added for highlighting important points, while leaving them in context.
I'm guessing I can't convince you, but what does it matter if FDR knew or not? If he did know, leaving the ships in port, and just letting them react without deployment was a sound strategic decision on his part. Had the fleet been deployed, the losses would have occoured at deep sea, and nothing would have been recovered. Casualties for the Pearl Harbor attack were minimal compared to losses projected by a full deployment to intercept.
If he didn't know, what does it matter? Any American can tell you that politicians are merely mouthpieces for the people pulling the strings, people like George Soros.
What do they want, and where is this going? I'll be happy if I can encourage people to think about that. Even now, think tanks are redefining the United States as an oligarchy instead of a democratic republic, as I had been taught.
Aftermath
MAGIC provided Washington intelligence personnel and decision-makers with theirbest opportunity to provide early warning to U.S. commanders and forces in the Pacific.Other COMINT and HUMINT sources showed Japanese order of battle deployments andpreparations, but could not present a near-real-time picture of Japanese intentions.Although MAGIC never contained information that conclusively proved Japan would attack the United States or Pearl Harbor on December 7, there were adequate indications that something significant was going to happen on or around 1:00 P.M. that day. A comparison of the most important MAGIC messages reveals several trends, and when viewed in conjunction with each other, clearly indicates hostilities were imminent
From Wikipedia:
On May 25, 1999, the United States Senate, by a vote of 52–47, passed a non-binding resolution to exonerate Kimmel and Short and requested that the President of the United States posthumously restore both men to full rank.[19] Senator Strom Thurmond, one of the sponsors of the resolution, called Kimmel and Short "the two final victims of Pearl Harbor." The Senate enquiry in 2000 issued a lengthy exoneration of Kimmel's conduct.[24] President Clinton did not act on the resolution, nor has any of his successors.
--------------------------
As always bolding and italics added for highlighting important points, while leaving them in context.
I'm guessing I can't convince you, but what does it matter if FDR knew or not? If he did know, leaving the ships in port, and just letting them react without deployment was a sound strategic decision on his part. Had the fleet been deployed, the losses would have occoured at deep sea, and nothing would have been recovered. Casualties for the Pearl Harbor attack were minimal compared to losses projected by a full deployment to intercept.
If he didn't know, what does it matter? Any American can tell you that politicians are merely mouthpieces for the people pulling the strings, people like George Soros.
What do they want, and where is this going? I'll be happy if I can encourage people to think about that. Even now, think tanks are redefining the United States as an oligarchy instead of a democratic republic, as I had been taught.
I think the figure of 1.8billion is a bit far-fetched. I believe if 18/76 of the population of the world supported terror and murder that they'd be more than capable of making the proportion more akin to 1/1
I just saw where I'm at. Isn't this a Politics post? I'm not posting here.
Japan made a deal with Hitler. Hitler thought America would fail if we were fighting wars on two fronts. He was wrong.
Oh.. kaaaay, but what does that have to do with intelligence not being released or acted upon?
OP in fed forever? I guess that hatred didn't work out too well.
From a little bit of digging, it seems the account was only made to post in the forums to Criticise the US and to defend Islam.
When looking at his spouse (who has been inactive for 32 days) they too came on to Defend Islam, so it points strongly to the notion that his spouse is just his Multi. Good chance he is a restart too.
Just an observation :P
When looking at his spouse (who has been inactive for 32 days) they too came on to Defend Islam, so it points strongly to the notion that his spouse is just his Multi. Good chance he is a restart too.
Just an observation :P