Anyone know what negative effects there are to failing the planned assassination oc, other than a butt load of wasted time?
PA failures
Started by Daedelus [592914] on in Questions & Answers.
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- CloudJumper [1636201] · 23 likes ·
I can confirm that PA failures, which result in jailing cost 0 CE. Me and ReyDuvall have been running the Nash test and setup a freshly minted 60 nnb as #2 in a PA. The said member did no other … - Baldr [1847600] Reporter
· 15 likes ·
PA success is very good for raising your CE. Actual failures on PA's (jail or not) seem to have either no effect on CE or a very small loss. Successful PA's often jail the top two CE members. If that … - Crayfish [954866]
· 9 likes ·
We don't condone PA failures at Evo :P [image: i.imgur.com]
loss of crime xp if you get jailed
Loss of crime experience is the main thing. Even a jail-success results in some (small) CE loss for #1 and #2.
EDIT: 2019-07-23 I was wrong. No loss of CE.
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=61&t=16030860&b=0&a=0&start=320&to=19518918
[image: gyazo.com]
EDIT: 2019-07-23 I was wrong. No loss of CE.
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=61&t=16030860&b=0&a=0&start=320&to=19518918
[image: gyazo.com]
![[image: gyazo.com]](https://gyazo.com/20cda820688e3dae113b2ac2bd93d2d2.bmp){kind=link}
Mentions: Nash's Guide to Nerve Bar (Revived)
Source? I don't think this has been confirmed by anyone.
im under the opposite impression, that its probably still a small net gain for jail-success, or at least if not its completely negligable
PA success is very good for raising your CE.
Actual failures on PA's (jail or not) seem to have either no effect on CE or a very small loss.
Successful PA's often jail the top two CE members. If that was costing them CE, then fairly often we would see those people fall, while others on that team gained, so the top players would change. That doesn't happen, though. I'm convinced that success always gives you higher CE, regardless of whether you are jailed.
Actual failures on PA's (jail or not) seem to have either no effect on CE or a very small loss.
Successful PA's often jail the top two CE members. If that was costing them CE, then fairly often we would see those people fall, while others on that team gained, so the top players would change. That doesn't happen, though. I'm convinced that success always gives you higher CE, regardless of whether you are jailed.
Has anyone determined an approximate ratio of crime exp gain per successful PA : crime exp loss per failed PA?
Shame Alexsztraza didn't do that test when she was testing CE gains :(
![[image: i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/U952HWD.png){kind=link}
I'm not positive, but I think she's still testing CE gains. And she does that by getting to 60 nnb, carefuly counting which crimes she has done, the # of greens vs blues, and then when she hits 60 nnb, she intentionally gets jailed and repeats it. Over and over.
So she's usually at 55nnb, or at 60nnb for a day or two.
And that's not good for PA's.
Plus, PA success is based on the entire team, not just one player, so unless you have all the details from everyone else on the team, you're pretty limited in what you can figure out, even if you are on a successful PA team.
I've heard some numbers thrown out like "A successful PA gives the same CE gains as 300 arsons" and such, but I'm not sure I remember the number right, and I'm not sure how accurate that information was in the first place.
So she's usually at 55nnb, or at 60nnb for a day or two.
And that's not good for PA's.
Plus, PA success is based on the entire team, not just one player, so unless you have all the details from everyone else on the team, you're pretty limited in what you can figure out, even if you are on a successful PA team.
I've heard some numbers thrown out like "A successful PA gives the same CE gains as 300 arsons" and such, but I'm not sure I remember the number right, and I'm not sure how accurate that information was in the first place.
Chedburn, players need your input. lol
Foggy, who has high CE based on busting, once tracked results by success/fail records of different people in different combinations of PA teams. The order they appeared in the PA results next time indicated their relative CE, and tracked across time this could be used for determining increasing/decreasing CE. For example, if member-1 was on a PA team just below member-2, then was off of PAs while member-2 had PA successes, then returned to the team above member-2, that would indicate a slight negative effect from PA successes (assuming no other jailings occurred).
However, this was four years ago, before the bump from 45 max NNB to 60 max NNB. It's possible it has changed, or the information wasn't accurate.
The best way to resolve this (short of a clarification from Chedburn) would be to re-do the results comparisons based on a faction's PAs. I can check to see if NS1 will let me do that. Obviously a large number of PA results across the same pool of people are needed to draw any conclusions. There was a detailed thread on PA strategies about 2-3 years ago, and I recall Foggy posted on there too.
However, this was four years ago, before the bump from 45 max NNB to 60 max NNB. It's possible it has changed, or the information wasn't accurate.
The best way to resolve this (short of a clarification from Chedburn) would be to re-do the results comparisons based on a faction's PAs. I can check to see if NS1 will let me do that. Obviously a large number of PA results across the same pool of people are needed to draw any conclusions. There was a detailed thread on PA strategies about 2-3 years ago, and I recall Foggy posted on there too.
Ain't happening bruh
Have you ever received an answer from praying?
Now, when you list people to add them to an OC, they are listed in CE order. That changed a few months back, I think.
So you can still compare the ratings based on results from the people in an OC, but it is no longer necessary, since you can compare people easily just by going to the "Plan an OC" section. The people are all in order. That makes things much easier. You still can't see exactly how much CE each has, or how big the gap is from one to another, but simply figuring out who has the most CE is easy.
Faction members who are already in OC's are not listed, but if you had no OC's running, then every faction member would be listed in order. Normally, many OC's are going at a time, but with a little effort, over time as OC's end and you update the list, you can easily create a list of everyone.
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So you can still compare the ratings based on results from the people in an OC, but it is no longer necessary, since you can compare people easily just by going to the "Plan an OC" section. The people are all in order. That makes things much easier. You still can't see exactly how much CE each has, or how big the gap is from one to another, but simply figuring out who has the most CE is easy.
Faction members who are already in OC's are not listed, but if you had no OC's running, then every faction member would be listed in order. Normally, many OC's are going at a time, but with a little effort, over time as OC's end and you update the list, you can easily create a list of everyone.
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I believe 300 is what she found yes, I just meant that it was a shame that the loss wasn't quantified - which I suppose is tough as you'd need to have a team that would certainly fail.
Is she testing internally? If so wouldn't you have access to all player data around the PA?
Is she testing internally? If so wouldn't you have access to all player data around the PA?
She was mostly testing CE gains on normal crimes. She isn't normally part of PA teams, because "55 or barely 60" isn't good for doing PA's.
Screenshot off Nash's crime/nerve guide in regards to potential CE gains from PA's....as to crime exp loss i am not privy to that info, but judging from the collective CE loss from a failed PA seems negligible (minor) or non existent.
[image: i.gyazo.com]
[image: i.gyazo.com]
![[image: i.gyazo.com]](https://i.gyazo.com/1deeabd4412de94eb1654034c44320c5.jpg){kind=link}
I can confirm that PA failures, which result in jailing cost 0 CE. Me and ReyDuvall have been running the Nash test and setup a freshly minted 60 nnb as #2 in a PA. The said member did no other crime after hitting 60 nnb and was put in PA directly.
The first run resulted in soft failure (#4 was hospitalized, others were safe) this still kept their nnb at 60. As an additional test to determine whether OC failure gave any ce, the member did drug deal to drop down to 55 nnb and reclaimed 60 nnb exactly after 150 arsons (proving Nash's results) affirming that PA failure neither gives nor takes CE. Another argument can be made here that the soft and hard failed PAs are not directly related to the crime xp of the team.. It's been a belief in the past that if a team soft fails, it was due to team being slightly weak and only the worst teams get hard failed.. A fresh 60 being used as #2 resulting in soft fails pretty much counters this argument.
The second run of the PA was a hard fail in which the participant was jailed. Their nnb, however, stayed at 60. Confirming no CE loss. A single crime was performed at the end of each OCs to check if it triggers nnb loss. It did not. This busts the age old myth that failed OCs cost you CE.
I am also confident that jail success and clean success both give equal ce. If jailing from failure is not costing any CE, jailing from success surely wouldn't. In any case, this remains to be tested for some other day.
The first run resulted in soft failure (#4 was hospitalized, others were safe) this still kept their nnb at 60. As an additional test to determine whether OC failure gave any ce, the member did drug deal to drop down to 55 nnb and reclaimed 60 nnb exactly after 150 arsons (proving Nash's results) affirming that PA failure neither gives nor takes CE. Another argument can be made here that the soft and hard failed PAs are not directly related to the crime xp of the team.. It's been a belief in the past that if a team soft fails, it was due to team being slightly weak and only the worst teams get hard failed.. A fresh 60 being used as #2 resulting in soft fails pretty much counters this argument.
The second run of the PA was a hard fail in which the participant was jailed. Their nnb, however, stayed at 60. Confirming no CE loss. A single crime was performed at the end of each OCs to check if it triggers nnb loss. It did not. This busts the age old myth that failed OCs cost you CE.
I am also confident that jail success and clean success both give equal ce. If jailing from failure is not costing any CE, jailing from success surely wouldn't. In any case, this remains to be tested for some other day.
Thanks for sharing CJ! Very interesting indeed :)