Batman and Monarch
Started by RGiskard [1953860] on in Faction Discussion.
Posts archived: 1,831 / 1,831 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
![[image: media.discordapp.net]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/635028143777775647/914192190882873434/Drake_27112021220309.jpg){kind=link}
So taking assets he should never have taken is not a scam unless he has no intention on giving it back?
You can see how much leighway you've given him and why you come off as incredibly biased.
But this isn't the only thing you've done - you actually tried to attribute MnC being bad people as a means to justify why Batman did what he did. Even if there was little to no justification there and it being hypothetical slander scenarios. You could say "hey I was just being devil's advocate" but your entire post was a means for Batman to not come off as a scammer but a concerned leader. As far as saying Hank is not fit to lead as he's inactive and might hand off leadership to MnC thus confirming a full takeover.
As if merging doesn't mean that you're not in a full takeover already. Hank understands what a merge is, he'd be willing to hand off leadership to "MnC" - that's called trust in the process. When you commit, you fully commit. Wanna know why Batman failed? He didn't fully commit. It seems like "MnC" hasn't either to be fair and the reasoning for that is unknown(perhaps this exact scenario?) - but now is your time to fully commit.
As you can see Hank trusted Batman who doesn't have a clean history - why not MnC? Everyone deserves a chance to redeem themselves, this was Batman's redemption and it came to this. Yet you stood by his side during the downfall. It's just a poor showing, Mike. Hope this thread can die and Monarch can flourish so we can finally put a test to your scenario of PT + CR wiping the floor with Monarch.
You can see how much leighway you've given him and why you come off as incredibly biased.
But this isn't the only thing you've done - you actually tried to attribute MnC being bad people as a means to justify why Batman did what he did. Even if there was little to no justification there and it being hypothetical slander scenarios. You could say "hey I was just being devil's advocate" but your entire post was a means for Batman to not come off as a scammer but a concerned leader. As far as saying Hank is not fit to lead as he's inactive and might hand off leadership to MnC thus confirming a full takeover.
As if merging doesn't mean that you're not in a full takeover already. Hank understands what a merge is, he'd be willing to hand off leadership to "MnC" - that's called trust in the process. When you commit, you fully commit. Wanna know why Batman failed? He didn't fully commit. It seems like "MnC" hasn't either to be fair and the reasoning for that is unknown(perhaps this exact scenario?) - but now is your time to fully commit.
As you can see Hank trusted Batman who doesn't have a clean history - why not MnC? Everyone deserves a chance to redeem themselves, this was Batman's redemption and it came to this. Yet you stood by his side during the downfall. It's just a poor showing, Mike. Hope this thread can die and Monarch can flourish so we can finally put a test to your scenario of PT + CR wiping the floor with Monarch.
In case you are tired of reading MeanMike essays, as we are over here in Monarch, let me give you the cliffnotes version:
I attempted to stir shit with a rival that is outgrowing me, and kicked them while they were down. I then doubled down. Now that they are in the process of getting their stuff back, I'm trying to back track without backtracking so I don't have to say I was wrong. Now I'm afraid they will kick the shit out of me once Hank gets them moving in the right direction, because I used this situation to my advantage.
I attempted to stir shit with a rival that is outgrowing me, and kicked them while they were down. I then doubled down. Now that they are in the process of getting their stuff back, I'm trying to back track without backtracking so I don't have to say I was wrong. Now I'm afraid they will kick the shit out of me once Hank gets them moving in the right direction, because I used this situation to my advantage.
[image: i.imgur.com]
Throwback to when I made Drake's #1 fan Champion aka Torn's original terrorist profile art. LMFAO
![[image: i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/Qba5Op1.jpg){kind=link}
Throwback to when I made Drake's #1 fan Champion aka Torn's original terrorist profile art. LMFAO
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1300&to=21980344
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1200&to=21979151
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1340&to=21980629
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1400&to=21981510
That shouldd get you a few looks at why. Click back to Mike's post that got each response to see the full context. (And I think this works, but f**k do Torn's forums suck. Should have just have snagged a working forum and used that instead of rolling their own.)
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1200&to=21979151
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1340&to=21980629
https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=9&t=16251775&b=0&a=0&start=1400&to=21981510
That shouldd get you a few looks at why. Click back to Mike's post that got each response to see the full context. (And I think this works, but f**k do Torn's forums suck. Should have just have snagged a working forum and used that instead of rolling their own.)
Mentions: Batman and Monarch
I've got to be honest, I really dont get based on what ive seen why what batman did is being called a scam. Maybe it is just different definitions, but to me a scam is trying to trick someone to steal money/resources for their personal profit.
Considering that even before the family threatening thing, he was returning hundreds of billions in items and not securing the bank... it just never read as a SCAM. He seemed to be trying to reform relentless (I get it wasnt going to work), or 'get' the so called scum squad... not steal resources. His actions don't match with this being a scam. If you were a scammer the first thing you would do is lock the bank and then start trying to auction off or liquidate the items. None of which was the case here.
A coup attempt? An attempt to overthrow the rightful leadership of Monarch and seize control? A poor decision to make? A principled stand (if you like him)? A douche Move? A major betrayal of the trust of the membership of Monarch? Something that hurt his own rank and file?
All of the above yes maybe. But I honestly never got a sense of greed being the motivation for his actions.
Its also weird to me to see all the Monarch folks CALLING it a scam. I get the urge to call him out... and you should... but that just seems a weird choice of attack as opposed to all the examples I put above.
Just because, if i'm honest, if it *WAS* a scam my reaction would probably be "Hah, thats some karma considering what a bunch of those guys have done to others. RA et all are always scamming and then they got scammed? Thats kind of hilarious.." I suspect im not alone in that reaction to a 'scam'.
But my *reaction to one of your gov betraying you trying tried to seize control of the faction, overthrow your laws, and essentially trying to make himself dictator....its a lot of sympathy for Monarch and what they are going through. I sympathize a lot that right after a victorious war that brought them together, they had to deal with this tearing them apart.. And it makes me NOT a fan of Batman.
Just food for thought I suppose. And maybe its just a definition thing and some folks have a different definition of 'scam'. Or maybe its just a desire to slur his name with a 'scammer' tag.... but honestly plenty of horrible and more accurate things to call him.
Though I suppose it doesnt really matter in the end, but the above just keeps going through my head every time people keep arguing over if he scammed or not. Seems like an argument thats missing the point. The evidence is pretty clear it wasnt a 'scam' but that it WAS a pretty horrible thing to do that was essentially an attempt to coup his alliance and betray its members.
Considering that even before the family threatening thing, he was returning hundreds of billions in items and not securing the bank... it just never read as a SCAM. He seemed to be trying to reform relentless (I get it wasnt going to work), or 'get' the so called scum squad... not steal resources. His actions don't match with this being a scam. If you were a scammer the first thing you would do is lock the bank and then start trying to auction off or liquidate the items. None of which was the case here.
A coup attempt? An attempt to overthrow the rightful leadership of Monarch and seize control? A poor decision to make? A principled stand (if you like him)? A douche Move? A major betrayal of the trust of the membership of Monarch? Something that hurt his own rank and file?
All of the above yes maybe. But I honestly never got a sense of greed being the motivation for his actions.
Its also weird to me to see all the Monarch folks CALLING it a scam. I get the urge to call him out... and you should... but that just seems a weird choice of attack as opposed to all the examples I put above.
Just because, if i'm honest, if it *WAS* a scam my reaction would probably be "Hah, thats some karma considering what a bunch of those guys have done to others. RA et all are always scamming and then they got scammed? Thats kind of hilarious.." I suspect im not alone in that reaction to a 'scam'.
But my *reaction to one of your gov betraying you trying tried to seize control of the faction, overthrow your laws, and essentially trying to make himself dictator....its a lot of sympathy for Monarch and what they are going through. I sympathize a lot that right after a victorious war that brought them together, they had to deal with this tearing them apart.. And it makes me NOT a fan of Batman.
Just food for thought I suppose. And maybe its just a definition thing and some folks have a different definition of 'scam'. Or maybe its just a desire to slur his name with a 'scammer' tag.... but honestly plenty of horrible and more accurate things to call him.
Though I suppose it doesnt really matter in the end, but the above just keeps going through my head every time people keep arguing over if he scammed or not. Seems like an argument thats missing the point. The evidence is pretty clear it wasnt a 'scam' but that it WAS a pretty horrible thing to do that was essentially an attempt to coup his alliance and betray its members.
Oh for f**ks sake! Z can you just agree to a 1/1 with us without the threat of multiple bombs??? Seems like the perfect time, all the anger and stuff right now..
we all talking about batman
but where is the man himself? he doesnt wanna defend his actions?
oh wait another pussycat? he should have bought some lawyers and a PR team...
but where is the man himself? he doesnt wanna defend his actions?
oh wait another pussycat? he should have bought some lawyers and a PR team...
This thread is going nowhere. Why not grave and continue this conversation in war at appropriate time and conditions?
Wasn't he allegedly blackmailed to return the faction? Obviously he'd keep quiet if that was the case.
"I don't know why stealing a faction that doesn't belong to you and funds that don't belong to you and items that don't belong to you and removing leadership roiles without permission and kicking members and doing all that when the members, leaders, and owner all say you're wrong is a scam."
What else don't you understand? Which direction is down? What wet is? The difference between hot and cold?
When you hold up both hands and put your thumb out and index finger out, the one that makes an 'L' is your left hand. Let me know if you need anything else really complicated explained.
What else don't you understand? Which direction is down? What wet is? The difference between hot and cold?
When you hold up both hands and put your thumb out and index finger out, the one that makes an 'L' is your left hand. Let me know if you need anything else really complicated explained.
Didnt JFK 2.1 have nemesis as its member who scammed MMCP off their stock fund , and the justification given was that he was their leader and all they had earned was bcs of him and he had the right to either that stock fund or racket proceedings from MMCP.
I think this is what was said by him if my memory serves right. Please correct me.
I think this is what was said by him if my memory serves right. Please correct me.
He did... MeanMike.
if it happened to your faction, you'd be crying scam. Don't be all high and mighty because you aren't involved.
You're completely wrong and this is why misinformation is so easily spread.
We're going in circles here. There is no justification for what he did, stop trying to reason that there is.
[image: i.imgur.com]
[image: i.imgur.com]
![[image: i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/nwj1D8r.jpg){kind=link}
I did ask you to correct me if I am wrong , so what was the justification given by JFK leaders at that time ?
Did you read my full post? I answered that question there. Was there a part of my explanation to that exact question you didn't understand?
TBH I suspect you didnt read my actual post (you disliked it like 5 seconds after I posted) and thus you may be confusing my saying it wasnt a scam with saying it was a good thing. That or you never read past where i said 'not a scam' and had some knee jerk reaction.
But to answer your question again since you didn't seem to understand it the first time. As I said in my post, scam to me signifies a 'trick' specifically to self profit in a monetary sense. None of Batmans actions indicate a desire to self profit. For example: not bothering to secure the bank. Giving away of hundreds of billions of items. His weird (clearly wrong) expectation that all the ex relentless members would want to stay in the alliance. And no his networth has not jumped significantly (he was sitting on 300 billion in faction funds for ages)/
Let me explain what a SCAMMER would do. They would instantly lock down bank access... and then they would be privately liquidating the gold aks and hazmat suits and taking bids to sell the faction.
You are so hung up on trying to call it a scam. But doing so actually weakens your argument. Saying it wasn't a scam is NOT condoning what Batman did. It is just using actually accurate verbiage to describe the situation. He betrayed your members trust and he tried to coup the legal government of Monarch. And then he wanted to expel everyone he didn't personally like from the faction.
All of the above is pretty damn awful and deserves being called out. But it isn't a scam no matter how hard you wish it to be. A betrayal? Yes. Scam? No.
TBH I suspect you didnt read my actual post (you disliked it like 5 seconds after I posted) and thus you may be confusing my saying it wasnt a scam with saying it was a good thing. That or you never read past where i said 'not a scam' and had some knee jerk reaction.
But to answer your question again since you didn't seem to understand it the first time. As I said in my post, scam to me signifies a 'trick' specifically to self profit in a monetary sense. None of Batmans actions indicate a desire to self profit. For example: not bothering to secure the bank. Giving away of hundreds of billions of items. His weird (clearly wrong) expectation that all the ex relentless members would want to stay in the alliance. And no his networth has not jumped significantly (he was sitting on 300 billion in faction funds for ages)/
Let me explain what a SCAMMER would do. They would instantly lock down bank access... and then they would be privately liquidating the gold aks and hazmat suits and taking bids to sell the faction.
You are so hung up on trying to call it a scam. But doing so actually weakens your argument. Saying it wasn't a scam is NOT condoning what Batman did. It is just using actually accurate verbiage to describe the situation. He betrayed your members trust and he tried to coup the legal government of Monarch. And then he wanted to expel everyone he didn't personally like from the faction.
All of the above is pretty damn awful and deserves being called out. But it isn't a scam no matter how hard you wish it to be. A betrayal? Yes. Scam? No.
Even if you get paid by the word, which I doubt, there must be something in the contract about quality writing before you get paid, right? I mean, nobody just pays for monkeys banging on a typewriter, right?
The real moral here is "Don't give your faction to someone else" and is entirely a case of misplaced trust.
But the issue is that people don't get the fact that trust is subjective and seem to think that everyone shares the same exact absolute morality
Monarch leadership misplaced their trust in Batman. Batman misplaced his trust in the rest of Monarch leadership.
A conman can find a burglar as morally despicable as a burglar might find a conman. Neither are absolutely right and neither are absolutely wrong, except to their victims or the people they work with.
But if you harbor an environment where ripping people off is ok, let alone encouraged, then don't be surprised when one of your own rips you off. You can cheer your members on when they rip off a newbie for a couple hundred million all you want, but don't expect universal sympathy when one of your own turns on you.
I'm not happy or cheering about this happening(maybe giggling at the irony), but I'm not surprised either. The entirety of the game is about stealing from other people, and learning to not trust people too much. Why is it perfectly fine for newbies to learn that lesson, but not veterans?
TL:DR Don't give Batman control of your faction. Lesson learned, can mods move this to Tutorials & Guides?
But the issue is that people don't get the fact that trust is subjective and seem to think that everyone shares the same exact absolute morality
Monarch leadership misplaced their trust in Batman. Batman misplaced his trust in the rest of Monarch leadership.
A conman can find a burglar as morally despicable as a burglar might find a conman. Neither are absolutely right and neither are absolutely wrong, except to their victims or the people they work with.
But if you harbor an environment where ripping people off is ok, let alone encouraged, then don't be surprised when one of your own rips you off. You can cheer your members on when they rip off a newbie for a couple hundred million all you want, but don't expect universal sympathy when one of your own turns on you.
I'm not happy or cheering about this happening(maybe giggling at the irony), but I'm not surprised either. The entirety of the game is about stealing from other people, and learning to not trust people too much. Why is it perfectly fine for newbies to learn that lesson, but not veterans?
TL:DR Don't give Batman control of your faction. Lesson learned, can mods move this to Tutorials & Guides?