Drugs Rework Proposal

Hello! I had promised to make this post a while back, and... I kind of got sidetracked and forgot about it. But for some reason, the old post that I put my original rough ideas onto has gotten a bunch of attention again and it prompted me to return it for finishing.

Torn forum formatting options are kind of bleh. So I've had to use some images, instead of straight text.


TL;DR Current drug options are bad, and even more unforgivable, boring. The first section is as condensed as I can reasonably get it. The second section is much longer as I talk about why I chose these changes and ideas.

Part 1 - Just The Good Stuff

You can find the list of drugs and their current Effects, Cooldowns, and Overdose Effects on this page on the Wiki. I'm going to assume you either know what they are so you can compare to the suggestion, or you don't care what they do. Either way, you won't find them listed out here.

My suggestion here does not include Overdose Effects for the reworked drugs. I think that those can, and probably should, be changed because the current "Zaps all your Energy/Nerve/Happiness" thing is boring. But that's not going to be here.

All numbers on this list are ballpark

Xanax, Ecstasy, LSD, and Vicodin remain unchanged.

Cannabis
[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

Ketamine
[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

Opium
[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

PCP
[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

Shrooms
[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

Speed
[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

Part 2 - I talk a whole lot.
(You only really need to read this if you care about my thought process for each of these changes. If you're going to post and give direct feedback or criticism, then I'd appreciate if you spent the time reading this section. Because it might already have an explanation or counterargument.)


The reason I feel that drugs could do with a rework is that we currently have so FEW drugs that are actually used at all. And three of those four drugs are because they have a clear purpose and identity within the game. There is a wide-open design space available to us, which can generate more interesting choices in specific moments of the game. By identifying and emphasizing a unique identity for each of these drugs, we allow people to weigh their choices and engage with the game on a deeper level.

I consider Xanax, Vicodin, and Ecstasy to all have a strong identity and purpose. And for that reason, they're all used MUCH more than the other drugs. These drugs set the bar for any changes made to other drugs. Anything else introduced has to possess as strong an identity, and have the potential to fulfill an equally valuable purpose. Otherwise, it will never be used.

Xanax - Cheap Energy. This drug is when you want as much Energy as possible, without breaking the bank. It hurts your battle stats significantly, so it has situations where it can cause you issues to use (warring and mission targets primarily) but is fairly non-disruptive to general day-to-day play. This drug is held so highly in the game, that it often functions as a secondary currency. It is the MOST taken drug in the game. With a small exception, no other drugs even try to compete with its function.

Vicodin - Battle Stat Boost. With no negative side effects to contend with, this drug obviously tops the charts when you just need to be able to pick on someone bigger than you. An absolute staple for any type of fighting, and definitely for warring. Any drug that provides combat bonuses needs to be measured against this drug.

Ecstasy - The Happy Pill. A drug that is fairly valuable for beginning players, when Happy Jumping is still a valid method for training. This is a staple in augmenting the early growth of an account. Anything that generates Happiness has to contend with this.

LSD - The Special Mention. While I don't consider LSD to currently be a very interesting drug, I also am worried about changing it. Right now the primary market is SSL users, trying to squeeze out a little extra Energy from their cooldowns. I feel like supporting a relatively niche gameplay style is very much a healthy option. But I'm not sure how I would try to adjust this drug so that it is something other than "Walmart Brand Xanax" without potentially overloading it. For now, I felt leaving it as-is was the best choice.



I believe each drug should have a strong and clear identity and use case. Below, I go into extended reasoning of my changes and share some concerns I have with them as well.

Cannabis -
-Identity:
==Presently, this drug is used on 4/20, and by people hoping to get lucky on the merit bar for the rest of the year. Given it is the only drug, aside from LSD, which gives Nerve, I wanted to lean into that identity and emphasize it. So this is the "Do Moar Crimes Gud" drug. It generates a choice, where you can improve how quickly you raise your CE levels if that is a priority for you.
-Considerations:
==Some napkin math indicates that for someone in a high-respect faction, with 60 NNB, you are looking at approximately 424 Nerve available a day. (Daily Refill [60 NNB + 40 Faction Nerve] + (24 beers * 1.5 Faction perk) + 288 Natural Regen)
-Concerns:
==I think that it might be worth increasing the Discount % to 20% perhaps, because a bonus of 42 Nerve a day seems a bit lackluster, considering you'd be giving up any other drugs for it. I do worry how this would stack with Nerve generating Job Perks though, and instead of people using it for extended training, would use it as more of a Happy Jump style CE training tool. Is that wrong or bad? Probably not. But that’s still more narrow a function than I’d like to see.


Ketamine -
-Identity:
==The existing version of Ketamine can theoretically fill a space as a tanking drug, but I feel like when it is competing with Vicodin it is hard to justify using it. The proposed rework tries to lean VERY heavily into that concept, including a unique bonus effect to improve survivability further. With the duration being so short, it also requires the user to actively maintain the boosts, rather than popping the drug and going to catch a movie.
-Considerations:
==I could see an alternative version of this that focuses more on reliability, rather than random proc chance. Something to the effect of raising your Defense by x% for every y% health you're missing.
-Concerns:
==I worry about boosting any battle stat by that much may have a more dramatic impact on the landscape of warring than intended. While the steeper offensive reductions offset it, and the very short cooldown is a nice lever to help balance it, my gut still has me a bit nervous. I also feel like negating one hit of damage isn't an enormously significant effect, given you have 25 opportunities to be hit. Maybe remove the "Only trigger once" caveat? Reduce the bonus Defense % and increase the likelihood of the "Ignore an attack" proc?


Opium
-Identity:
==Opium is a method to use your Drug Cooldown in place of your Medical Cooldown. I actually quite like the original version of it, but when you consider the opportunity cost of your Drug Cooldown, it's still incredibly lackluster. So we can dial it in to focus on being a resource that lets you further conserve your medical cooldown.
-Considerations:
==With Ranked Warring being a major component of the game now, I think this needed to be carefully considered because that is where I imagine this would have the highest potential. Originally I was looking at having it simply reduce your Hospital Duration, but that would heavily reduce its value. Then I thought about allowing you to leave the Hospital at the halfway point on that timer, similar to Early Discharge. That however felt a little bit clunky. So by doubling the Medical Item effects instead, I think you get largely the same effect while being able to maintain control over when you want to leave the hospital.
-Concerns:
==I have this weird concern that people might use this to chase the Medical Items Used merits. I don't think they can though, at least I can't come up with any way to abuse it. The Defense bonus feels maybe a bit lackluster compared to some of the other drugs, perhaps it could be dialed up a little bit. But that isn't really the core purpose of using this drug.


PCP
-Identity:
==In its current state, if you compare PCP to Vicodin, you find it incredibly wanting. 5% less boost to the two stats it does, no boost to two others, higher Addiction Points cost, comparable duration, and much more painful OD penalty. So I've adjusted it to capture a different space, which I feel can be pretty interesting. Boosting Gym Gains seems like a simple option, but I'm curious to see how people might be able to combine it with other resources for potentially unique approaches to training.
-Considerations:
==A boost to Gym Gains feels like a very distinct and cool space to explore a bit. I'm not terribly concerned with it pushing out Xanax for long-term training, given full natural regen + daily refill is only 870e, so adding 3 Xanax a day is easily doubling your Energy a day. It might be interesting to try and dial this in with the new gym changes to allow it to have a space after Happy Jumps fall off, for a little while. I think it might even not be outside the realm of reason to raise it to +25% or something, but that's a lot of math to crunch to be confident on.
-Concerns:
==I feel like, if anything, this drug would still be heavily underwhelming. I have a mental image of it potentially generating better value when combined with heavy training using FHCs or e-cans. But it may be hard to dial it in so that it isn't exclusively better than Xanax all the time, but still has times it shines. Perhaps it would become a high-stat replacement? I would love to see a shift away from Xanax being the end-all-be-all of training. But again, there's some big math that would need to be done to map it out. I’d love to see Vlad or Proxima take this idea and map out some graphs, to find a sweet spot for it.


Shrooms
-Identity:
==For the life of me, I cannot imagine what the purpose of Shrooms was supposed to be. It can't be for Happy, because it wants your Energy to be empty when you use it. And it gives some pretty dramatic battle stat penalties. So the new version is meant to operate in the same sphere of influence as Ecstasy but in a distinctly different method. The balancing act of making sure you never let your drug CD drop (despite the relatively short duration) and the potential gains of an uncapped Happiness bar.
-Considerations:
==I imagine this would operate as a way to get better returns than Happy Jumping over an extended period of time, but require much more effort to maintain the uptime. The math, once again, would need to be done to identify the breakpoint and know the actual value. If it needs some puffing up, perhaps it doubles your natural Happiness growth.
-Concerns:
==Given how much Happiness starts to lose impact on training stats as they get higher, I’m not sure the value of this new version of the drug is high enough. The trouble of maintaining a drug uptime every 2-4 hours is a big ask. Especially over a period of multiple days, potentially.
--Brief ramble:
===I had the thought of Shrooms having “Reduce the Booster CD of all Happy-generating consumables by 50%” and I sort of love that idea. Right now, Ecstasy means you have to use all your Happy items first and pray for no overdose. This would mean you don’t use the items until you know you didn’t OD, but you have to use twice as many of them. It’s a cool choice to generate.
Where it gets dicey is FHCs. I sort of love the idea of how this could change the landscape of high-Energy back and forth between factions. But I do think that the option to get that much more Energy is too much of a boost to people who can afford it. I don’t like the idea of widening the gap between the behemoth players and the newer ones. But maybe there’s something to that ideal.
Maybe while you’re on Shrooms, your Booster CD reduces twice as fast? For that, we have to consider the interactions it would have with things like Gift Cards, Lawyer Business Cards, Books of Carols, and of course Alcohol items. I think Shrooms might be the drug I’m least happy with my current idea. More brainstorming may be necessary.


Speed
-Identity:
==It seems to me like Speed was meant to be the counterpart to Ketamine. An offensive-stat boosting drug, to make you a better fighter. Totally valid in concept, but as we’ve mentioned, Vicodin does a better job, for a comparable cooldown, and much less punishing OD chances. So just like with Ketamine, we’re dialing it up hard. Boost your attack stats, and reduce your defense stats. And by adding the increased power to Needles, it can encourage people to be using them, further complimenting the aggressive playstyle that I like for it.
-Considerations:
==Frankly, I wonder if the boost to Steroids can’t be increased further without it getting out of hand. Hard to say, there’s room to dial it in. While it may feel less interesting compared to Ketamine, this is also a drug you should be using when you’re active. So you have space already for other decisions, and I didn’t see much reason to introduce more here.
-Concerns:
==Despite what I just said above here, I do wonder if there isn’t a little room for a slightly more interactive drug effect. I’m not too worried about it, but part of my goal is to make drugs feel less like an “Ok, I popped it, guess that’s done,” and instead become a strategic and tactical element of gameplay. Becoming aware of your drug cooldown, just because “Oh, I can pop my next drug,” but because that is a ticking timer that you have to operate within is a good thing, in my opinion.

All for these changes - give people reasons to use a drug that isn't xanax or get rid of the other drugs altogether

These are great thoughtful ideas. There’s a few areas of the game that the game itself seems to have grown out of, but with a tweak, could make them relevant again and strategically useful. These are some great examples.


Do education next!

I LOVE this proposal!

I hate current situation where 99,99% of time you just gulp xana and nothing else because all other drugs are shit (except 1 vico per war and ecstasy for noobs).

Very good thing about PCP where it gives you gym boost, possibly one could increase that percentage even more to mitigate 250e from xana.

All in all, changes to drug mechanics are badly needed in this game.

Drugs 2.0 is on its way, just be patient and hopefully it will be ready by 2030.

Awesome post and exactly what the game needs as a positive change.

I hope they will start working on this after Crimes 2.0. Load image: tongue

These suggested changes look amazing! Would definitely make me think about using other drugs instead of feasting on xanax only.

The advancing playstyle is quite narrow, take xan whenever you can and cans/alcohol depending on whether you are going for PA or BS.

Changes that make the other drugs at least worth considering are sorely needed...

Well thought out suggestion

Great suggestion, unfortunately im predicting Ched saying that "drug rework is already in the works and should come out soonTM".

There's probably a suggestion every month to change drugs; this one surprised me by being thought out.

While I’m not convinced that this’ll get people off the current Xan meta, it’s good to be thinking outside the box.


On the topic of LSD, I thought of something a while back that I still think is solid. Give SSL/LSD players a merit stream. Each tier is 5 additional e on top of the existing 50 they get from it.

SSL is a lifestyle within Torn. Merits are meant to represent your chosen style. I’m not sure if the extra 50e on a drug with high OD chance would let it compete with Xan (don’t believe so) but I think it’s something for those taking the route.

you could also make it a stream for all drugs bar Xanax I suppose. Giving 50e in addition to combat perks but I don’t think that’s a great idea due to differing CDs.

I certainly don't disagree that educations would be another space ripe for some updating and upgrading. But it has soooo many more moving pieces to it, it might be some time before I have the time to tackle it for a full proposal on how to rebuild it. That said... I'll ponder on it in my spare time!

Even if they do say it's already pending, I hope that some seed of value would be found in these suggestions. I definitely wouldn't expect these to be taken as they are right now, I have no doubt multiple iterative changes would need to be made to them for it to turn into something that actually fits into the landscape of the game, without being overly disruptive.

The idea of having the effect of drugs scale, as you have taken more of them, really does sound interesting. It would definitely offer some levers that we could pull, to help adjust and dial them in more. There isn't currently (to my knowledge) any precedent for that type of scaling though, aside from gym gains increasing as your battle stats go up.

Diagetically, it could be framed as "You're getting more used to being on this drug, and how to operate when on it." Therefore allowing you to eke out 'better' results from yourself, while using them. It does feel like there is some strong promise to it!

Bumping this back up.

And another bump!

Obligatory bump.

Bumps galore.