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Stock Market - Volatility Update

Started by Lt_Wolf [73234] Admin on in Stock Market.

803 replies · 38.7k views · thread synced · 4 days ago · View on torn.com

Posts archived: 804 / 804 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch

Lazzil [2870326]
I see. I kinda figured there would be a difference between what Matz does and what individual investors do, but I wasn't sure what a bad month would look like for individual investors. I appreciate your insight.

I guess one other question I'd have to ask is how often do you sell the stock you've invested in? Main reason I ask this is because I'm not sure how well it'll compete with stocks such as SYM, ASS, FHG, and MUN since those are weekly. FHG and MUN both have very high payouts, and SYM and ASS are both really cheap and wouldn't significantly help my active stock funds anyways (although I'm less enthusiastic about those two).


Looks like I also have to acknowledge I was wrong about MrEvilDr trading actively at 10b NW, and I apologize for that. False confidence is one of my more prominent flaws. D:
_SCOFIELD_ [1441750]
When active trading stocks, you don’t buy thinking about the bb benefits you might get a week or month later… you could buy and sell within the day, some investments might take a few days and some you end up holding for a werk or more to profit/ sometimes even sell for a loss and move on to the next one..,
I personally sell when I think a stock is done climbing or when I’m happy with the profits.. usually around 1%…. This time though I’m being greedy holding out my THS and TCM blocks at 3% and 2% profits respectively (netting me roughly 4-5b in profit if I sell now)
KindaEpicMoah [2493924]
Depends on how the stock performs. It's not a matter of how long it has been, but rather how much it has gone up. Sometimes it goes up within a day, and I make a nice 1-2% profit if I'm lucky. Other times, I'm stuck waiting weeks (like right now) while being in the red.
Themick [2449274]
Fhg bb costs 1.5b and pays roughly 15m a week.

1.5b * .01 = 15m. So make 1% on your 1.5b (after fees) and you are even with the bb.

Sure at 1.5b it might not be worth day trading. However increase your cash to 4.5b. Now you can have 2 bb of fhg paying 30m a week.

However 4.5b * .01 = 45m.

This gets more and more pronounced as you increase in NW.

Decide for yourself what you feel is a solid return and buy those BB, everything goes to stocks (or poker or companies or whatever you feel is best roi for you).
Lazzil [2870326]
The reason I ask about length is because of its relation to compounding interest. Earning 1% per day is better than 7% per week, and 7% per week is better than 30% per month.

Now if you can consistently earn 1% every single week, and not a day later, then it will be better than passive stocks no matter how much you have invested. But there's a big drop off when you need to wait 2 weeks to cash out, and you'll need a lot more capital invested to out-earn weekly passive stocks.

sometimes even sell for a loss and move on to the next one
Unless you're able to make up for that loss within the day, this is a much bigger deal than you might realize. Because now that we're working backwards—even if it's over a shorter period of time—the losses really eat into that compounding effect. And the more it eats into that, the less reliable it'll be when comparing it to passive stocks.

I know that the BB itself is stagnant, but the money it generates can be added to your active portfolio and then start compounding. My goal for those four stocks is to maximize the amount of money I generate in one week. If an actively traded stock takes more than a week for it to reach its optimal height, then it'll result in less money for most players.


Okay, this convo's kickstarted my decaying math brain. Lets crunch the numbers.

To demonstrate, I'll bring up a few scenarios where one shows the output of hybrid (passive and active) trading using the four BBs I mentioned, and the other shows the output for just active over a 1-week and 2-week period. For both, I'll be using $4.5B since that's the current cost of the 4 stocks I'm measuring.


Investment Type -- Length -- Interest -- Amount: Profit

Passive -- 1 week -- 4.5B: 38.4M
Active -- 1 week -- 1% 4.5B: 45M

Active -- 1 x 2 weeks -- 1% -- 4.5B: 45M
Hybrid -- 2 x 1 week -- .5% -- 4.5B: 77M

The math: 38.4M + 38.4M + 38.4M/200 (after withdrawing, investing the withdrawal, and withdrawing again next week).


That's why I ask for the length. Two weeks of active investing for 1% returns would be worse than two weeks of hybrid investing.

There's one other thing that needs to be taken into consideration, which is the scale. A larger number with a smaller percentage does have potential to be better than a smaller number with a larger percentage. So now I'm gonna try a different comparison using a total of $290B (slightly below your NW).


Active -- 2 weeks -- 1% -- 290B: 2.9B

This is already significantly higher than what I calculated with the passive/active income. However, see what happens when we split it up.

Active -- 1 x 2 weeks -- 1% -- 285.5B: 2.855B
Hybrid -- 2 x 1 week -- .5% -- 4.5B: 77M
Total: 2.932B

So if you invested using my strategy, you'd make an extra $32M in that 2-week period.



Now I'm gonna try this with $1T since there are only 12 players with a NW higher than that.


Active -- 2 weeks -- 1% 1T: 10B

And I'll split again...

Active -- 2 weeks -- 1% 995.5B: 9.955B
Hybrid -- 2 x 1 week -- .5% 4.5B: 77M
Total: 995.577B

So it'd be somewhere between 290B and 1T that we see the effectiveness of passive stocks dwindle. This means that fewer than 72 Torn players will not benefit from these stocks (I'd guesstimate roughly 40) unless they consistently make 1% every week.

If you have them recorded, I'd really like to see what your trading outcomes are so I can measure things out more accurately.


Please do let me know if you spot an error in my math somewhere. I haven't done this much math since dropping out of college. D:


Edit: Wow, that is an embarrassing arithmetic error.

This part here:
Active -- 2 weeks -- 1% 1T: 10B

And I'll split again...

Active -- 2 weeks -- 1% 995.5B: 9.955B
Hybrid -- 2 x 1 week -- .5% 4.5B: 77M
Total: 995.577B

Should actually come out to:
Total: 10.032B

So what this actually means is that no matter how you divvy up the numbers, the profitability remains the same.

My bad!
_SCOFIELD_ [1441750]
Are you using 2 FHG bbs for ur calculations? Then 2 FHCs are worth ~28m not 38m… anyway not my point…

with 4.5b invested in passive income, you make 2b per year…
with 4.5b invested in active income @5% avg (not compounding) you make 2.7b per year…

without reinvesting the gains in either portfolio, active income is still much more than what passive income would generate…

the question is never about you could use the gains from passive income to increase ur active trading portfolio, but it is that money spent in passive income blocks will return less profit than what your active trading portfolio will in the first place so whatever mafs you use, passive is in no way better…
Winguem [2862329]
Bro it is a crystal clear universal truth that passive can never even come anywhere close to active income, and i think you've already proved it many times here.
But i can't believe you'd put time looking at that essay length flawed maths xD
At this point you're talking to a passive wall.
Lazzil [2870326]
Are you using 2 FHG bbs for ur calculations? Then 2 FHCs are worth ~28m not 38m… anyway not my point…


I'm gonna answer your question with something I already wrote.

Main reason I ask this is because I'm not sure how well it'll compete with stocks such as SYM, ASS, FHG, and MUN since those are weekly.

To demonstrate, I'll bring up a few scenarios where one shows the output of hybrid (passive and active) trading using the four BBs I mentioned, and the other shows the output for just active over a 1-week and 2-week period. For both, I'll be using $4.5B since that's the current cost of the 4 stocks I'm measuring.


Moving on...

with 4.5b invested in passive income, you make 2b per year…
with 4.5b invested in active income @5% avg (not compounding) you make 2.7b per year…

Right, but we're arguing about compounding interest.

without reinvesting the gains in either portfolio, active income is still much more than what passive income would generate…

That's why I did math for a hybrid approach. The hybrid approach uses compounding interest.



Unless you're willing to engage with the information I provided, I don't know how else to move the conversation forward.
Hermoine [1300884]
So.. how many days before we see some volatility again? Most stocks are barely moving .3% a day, that’s how its supposed to be?
Hermoine [1300884]
Exactly, yes.. if it stays the way it is, I think stocks 3.0 is pretty much done for most of us. No more logging in multiple times a day to check your stocks, invest and come back after a couple of months for a good 1% gain.
[background color=var(--bbc-body-bg-color)] Make the game more boring and retire everyone. <3[/background]
kup [2562431]
Same, just going to set and forget. This stock update is going to reduce my engagement in the game as others have already stated for themselves. No need to check in and research options anymore.
Netsky [960069]
Stocks was the only thing keeping me interested in the game the last 12 months or so.. sad to see the game being ripped apart again. Time to finally retire??