Skip to content
TORNLIFE More

Should we revert back to Chat 1.0?

Started by Chedburn [1] Admin on in General Discussion.

712 replies · 23.9k views · thread synced · 3 days ago · View on torn.com
About this thread

Posts archived: 713 / 713 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch

Counted by TornLife from the archived posts.

Archived posts
713
Discussion span
→
Authority score
71 / 100
Historical score
65 / 100
Story score
81 / 100
Engagement score
93 / 100

People posting, likes and official posts are not counted for this thread yet: on threads longer than one page they come from a periodic pass over the archive, which has not covered it.

Most-liked replies

Mentioned in this thread

HavokGDI [133687] ×1 bogie [148747] ×1 DeKleineKobini [2114440] ×1 MunkyBone [2493877] ×1 babblingduk [2874016] ×1 ALPHAOMEGA420 [2885800] ×1 ToniBroz [3053150] ×1

Chedburn [1] Admin Developer
Citizens,

Two months ago, I made the decision to transition Torn over to Chat 2.0 rather than investing significant resources into addressing the fundamental issues present in Chat 1.0 which we were already planning to replace.

Chat 1.0 was ancient software initially created over 15 years ago. Our current developers are unfamiliar with its rigid structure, a problem that limits our ability to update or resolve its shortcomings effectively. In my eagerness to move beyond the limitations of Chat 1.0, I chose to launch Chat 2.0, believing it to be more or less ready for widespread use. Unfortunately, this was a mistake, and I apologize for how this has gone down.

I was unaware of the issues that would emerge under a mass-scale deployment, and when they came to light, I initially thought these problems would be resolved quicker than they have been. Sadly, we've failed to deliver solutions to some of these issues within a reasonable time frame. It feels like we're always one update away from resolving everything, but maybe it's time to just give up for now and return back to the old system.

No matter how frustrating this has been for players, you can rest assured this whole process has been no less frustrating for me.


Today there's been some developments...

- All third party rate limiting is now disabled, resolving issues caused by using many browser tabs at once.
- All known Notebook issues have been resolved.
- Timestamp tooltips have been added to all chats.

Additionally a 'retry connection' mechanism is scheduled to be released tomorrow which will help "Connecting to the server" issues, chat entirely disappearing, and the inability to load certain channels. The next immediate priorities will be synchronizing chat states between all browser tabs and devices, as well as addressing interactions with chat and sending of messages between page loads. As I said, it always feels like a breakthrough is right around the corner, which is what makes this decision to revert back to 1.0 so difficult.


Here's the priority list as it stands...

[image: i.gyazo.com]


Although the team has fixed the majority of critical issues over the last two months, there's still lots more work to do. It's clear there will still remain, at a minimum, plenty of non-critical issues and minor frustrations for a few more months.

Based on this situation, I have decided to allow the community to choose whether we persist with Chat 2.0 or revert fully back to Chat 1.0 while we iron out the issues. Please consider the following before making your choice:

- If Chat 2.0 remains operational in the production environment, the team will continue fixing the remaining issues until things are perfect, and then begin working on significant updates to improve it to a point where it is far superior to Chat 1.0.

- Reverting to Chat 1.0 will inevitably cause disruption to Chat 2.0's development, and thus a delay on new features such as custom group chats.

- Please remember that Chat 1.0 had its own problems too. The original move to Chat 2.0 was expedited due to the fear of a hard connection limit. We'll almost certainly need to spend considerable resources resolving these issues instead of working on Chat 2.0.

- The revert back to Chat 1.0 may not be smooth, and all existing chats on 2.0 will be lost. We have no developers on the team who know Chat 1.0's old code, so it will be a challenge for us to achieve a clean transition back to the old system, let alone updating it to resolve its critical flaws

- The slowdown after a few minutes across all Torn android apps caused by Chat 1.0 will return. After many months of work, we were unable to resolve this with Chat 1.0, and this is another reason for my haste to move to Chat 2.0 in the first place.

- There are problems that are very difficult to reproduce outside of a production environment. We will obviously do our best, but when the new chat eventually returns, we may encounter similar issues again that are only reproducible with wide-scale usage. But we'll make sure to carry out proper closed betas within the community beforehand.

As you can likely infer, my preference would perhaps be to push onward with Chat 2.0 as this will ensure that we are able to refine it as quickly as possible. But of course, there are many issues with it which affect your gameplay, hence why I felt it important for the community to make the final call.


Reverting back to 1.0 will see us migrating back to the original chat, and then focusing development towards attempting to rebuild it in an effort to resolve its inherent connection limit flaw. The migration process may not be very smooth, and the rebuild will be hard work, but this will then hold us over until Chat 2.0 is in an optimal state for us to re-release it in the future.

The alternative is for us to continue with what we're doing, releasing updates and fixes every week. I can see the chat team are working hard every day, and they are capable of resolving these complex issues eventually - the only question is time. At some point, they will all be resolved, and we are seeing significant progress weekly, but it doesn't seem possible to commit to a dedicated timeline.


Should we continue working through the kinks of 2.0 while it's in production until we can get it perfect? Or is it best to revert everyone back to 1.0 and begin investing some resources into that to resolve its limitations before continuing with 2.0?

Thanks.
Theriddler42 [2294918]
No, it's a work in progress. I know it kinda sucks now, but if all of the issues can get ironed out, i do believe this could be superior. ESPECIALLY if we can eventually get custom chats (useful for ranked wars so not every tier is clogging up faction chat). this jsut seems to be a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I also have gotten used to the layout and don't want to go back.
Hcom3 [2003693]
Chat 2.0 sucks currently in many ways but I think it’ll suck more overall to go back to 1.0 and deal with different issues for longer.
Hogfather [330973]
I voted yes, but that's because I'm a player, if I were a dev I would have said, no, keep working on it. Purely because it isn't functional at all from an end user experience, each week there's new issues, it just feels like it was far from ready on release

This last week it's no longer possible to scroll on mobile devices.

I get the idea of having a significant part of Torn that nobody on the dev team is familiar with is scary, and honestly, I'm tempted to say 'keep it' just because of that alone, but speaking from the end user experience, it's just random as to what is or isn't going to work on an hourly basis.
Uncle [1945385]
Reverting back to Chat 1.0 will force me to contact American Express for a chargeback.


We believe in you Ched - just keep pushing hard towards your dream of Chat 2.0 and don’t bend to these peasant haters.
Aubrey [1483617]
The whole process has sucked for everyone involved, why take a huge step backward; especially when nobody is super familiar with the Chat 1.0 code? That feels like playing Russian Roulette with a pistol, rather than a revolver. You're only asking for trouble, and right away.
skmoonlight [2619860]
I personally liked (and used) chat 1.0 a lot more.

for torn as a whole i would say that sticking it out to 2.0 is probably better though

My personal main issue with chat 2.0 is the random re-opening of chats. I tend to play with like 10-20 tabs (sometimes even 2 browsers) and it feels like every other tab/page 4+ chats pop open. Sometimes its the last 4 i had open, sometimes it 4 i had open a few days ago.
(i even made a temper monkey tool to set the chat to display none, when its annoying me to much :P)

and when i try to open chat 2.0 it doesnt always work, or is slow. i also miss a lot more chats coming in, since they dont seem to get notified most of the time (even though flash notifier is on)
rainbowcatmeow [2161229]
If it's a work in progress, I'd like to see the final product before making a decision.

Right now, 2.0 is worse than 1.0. However, in the last few weeks, we've already seen a marked improvement between 2.0 at release to now.

The work that's been done looks promising, so I'm not too put off by 2.0 right now.
Taxxon [882264]
Rate limits was my main issue. Ill hold off voting for now so I can test it but also I'd like to mention that the community shouldnt have to get 250 likes for a feature that used to exists that was removed simply out of convenience.

There needs to be a distinct spot for minimized chats not mixed in with "closed" ones. Facebook users areny doing 50 trades a day and lame excuse to not adjust this.
ImNerdy [2621213]
Chat 2.0 has made me play Torn less and less and I've contemplated quitting. I know a lot of people feel similarly. I was pro-2.0 before it came out. But it's honestly just trash and clearly designed for "chat support" use on retail websites.
Maritime [2508811]
From a functional standpoint, Chat 1.0 is vastly superior in terms of user experience (right now). However, the potential for Chat 2.0 is undeniable, and over time, the issues will be ironed out and new features will be added. It's a work in progress, and I think that although it may suck overall right now, sticking with it and keeping it as a developer priority would be the best course of action...
SaucyHorsey [2207104]
Just bring back Chat 1.0 and keep working on Chat 2.0 until all its issues are fixed

wateva issues Chat 1.0 had doesnt compare to the issues Chat 2.0 has, didnt even know Chat 1.0 had issues anyways since wateva it was wasnt a big deal…

Bring back wat works and fix wats broken :)