More world conflicts

Are hospitals being bombed there, and have I made hospitals the thesis of my faux-humanitarian outrage?  No.

You literally just made the Uyghurs the thesis of your outrage (won’t say Faux as I’m not retarded enough to believe someone is faking outrage because they are not talking about everything everywhere all at once.) 

So by your own logic you are bad faith when talking about the Uyghurs. 

When is the last time you talked about the Uyghurs?  They’re actual genocide and ethnic cleansing. That’s something you like to be very concerned about.. if you think Jews are involved. 

Bathe in the milk of your own hypocrisy (and antisemitism). 

This is interesting.

Especially the part where you said, "As for the Islamists and Arab violence; what do you want us to say? Do you want us to condemn it? Do you want us to call them out and tell them that they are all going to hell for killing their own in Islam? Do you want us to start a thread and create further division between ourselves?"

There's a couple points to pull from this.

1. Going to hell for killing their own. Shows that you do not believe all are created equal. Why make a distinction between killing, and killing "one's own?"

2.  "Creating further division between ourselves." What do you mean by this? Seems like you are advocating for some form of Muslim intellectual hegemony. This reveals that  your arguments and assertions in the various Israel threads are really motivated by tribalism or religious supremacist ideologies, and the desire to argue that Jews bad, Muslims good. The reality is that Jews, and Muslims, like all other people, span the whole human range of evil to saintly. The fact that you do not "start a thread and create further division between [your]selves" especially when you have expressly confirmed that is part of your reasoning, basically confirms what Asbestos is implying.

This is why you and I kept talking past each other despite our best efforts. Until you can see Jews as equally worthy as any other race, religion, or ethnicity, of having self-determination, inherent humanity, and a place to call home, it is difficult to have a discussion.

Do you not care about hospitals being bombed in Syria?

That's a good question. But I am sure you don't care about what I care about. 

Why are the ones in Gaza special?

The hospitals in Gaza are as special as those in Israel. Innocents are innocents, no matter where they are, Gaza, Palestine, or anywhere else. Being born in a particular land doesn't make one special. It’s piety and righteousness that truly matter. 

The only difference I can see is that a Jewish nation didn’t drop the bomb in Syria. 

Is what you see all there is? Could Mossad or the CIA have a hand in this? Who truly benefits from this chaos in the Middle East? Who gains the most from these losses? Why are Iran and Turkey sending forces? Why did HTS break away from Al-Qaeda only to continue the same actions? How has their leader evaded capture despite a $10 million bounty on his head? What does he offer his generals and henchmen that outweighs that sum?

I have nothing but questions. When I said I do not know, I meant it. 

It is very difficult for me to believe that you are super passionate about it in Gaza from a purely humanitarian perspective, yet indifferent in Syria absent any ulterior motives. 

I used to be "super passionate" about Syria about 13 years ago. That was when ISIS arose and I happened to like it because I thought these guys were going to fight for the civilians against the tyranny of Assad and his forces. Because I thought they were going to help the poor civilians against Assad since they were claiming to be Muslims and Sunni too. You know this story about me. But boy was I wrong. I witnessed nothing Islamic about them. And knowing me, you know I won't make the same mistake twice. And today, I know exactly what they are and how they operate. I can identify their kind from a mile away.

Again, I backed away from them. I knew my feelings blinded me once and that I couldn't let it happen again. My hopes and dreams don't have a place in the face of reality. If I am to see things for what they are, I need to not have my feelings attached to my "eyes."

Probably the last time I talked to Lenin. Not sure when that was. 

Standard escape clause attempted I see. You realise you’re wrong but can’t think of anyway to get out of it so accuse antisemitism. 

Do I have to remind you I’m the one that got your friend the nazi banned? 

Edit - Is that why you’re angry at me, because I’m 2/2 at getting nazis banned and you’re worried? 

Assad IS bad. So is HTS. I don’t see a win for Syria no matter how this conflict turns out. I’m thankful that I can sit where I am and bitch about having two terrible presidential choices and that’s as bad as it gets. The Syrians have two terrible choices that will likely end up in hundreds of thousands of deaths, maybe millions, regardless of who wins. 

So I notice that you flagged the hospitals in Gaza and Israel as special, but you still ignored the one in Syria. Why not type “whoever dropped a bomb near that hospital is a piece of shit”?  It seems that your willingness to condemn this stuff is quite situational. 

Why are you trying to talk with me after calling me dishonest and after saying that I hide behind walls of text because I am dishonest? I have been nothing but brutally honest here and in private. The moment I knew that you see me differently, I stopped wasting my time. So feel free to respect that boundary in the future. But for old times' sake, I will respond to you in another 17 paragraphs of dishonesty.

Going to hell for killing their own. Shows that you do not believe all are created equal. Why make a distinction between killing, and killing "one's own?"

Not a gotcha moment. 

As for the answer; The distinction isn't about valuing one life over another; it's about emphasizing the grave responsibility Muslims have to their community. Unity among believers is a cornerstone of Islam, and harming that unity is seen as a direct violation of faith. However, the sanctity of all human life is equally emphasized in Islam.

That is why We ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity. 

(Quran 5:32)

So no, it’s not about one life being worth more than another. It’s about the added weight of betrayal when someone violates their duty to their faith and their community. Unlike your attempt to twist this, Islam values the sanctity of all life equally. The distinction is about accountability, not superiority.

"Creating further division between ourselves." What do you mean by this? Seems like you are advocating for some form of Muslim intellectual hegemony. 

Divide and conquer; classic war strategy. If you want to weaken an enemy, get them to fight among themselves. Then all that’s left is mopping up the tired, injured, and broken. It’s basic tactics; I’m surprised this is news to you.

As for division, it also ties back to the hadith about Muslims being divided into 73 sects. It's not about advocating for hegemony. It’s a reminder of how disunity weakens us all, spiritually and strategically. Unity is strength; division is vulnerability. Simple as that. 

If you wanna say that I support a caliphate; sure, I do. But with how we are today, it won't hold. We are so broken apart that we are like the hadith described us. "Love for the world and hatred of death" is what divided us like the foam on the surface of the sea.

This reveals that  your arguments and assertions in the various Israel threads are really motivated by tribalism or religious supremacist ideologies, and the desire to argue that Jews bad, Muslims good.

Okay.

The reality is that Jews, and Muslims, like all other people, span the whole human range of evil to saintly. The fact that you do not "start a thread and create further division between [your]selves" especially when you have expressly confirmed that is part of your reasoning, basically confirms what Asbestos is implying.

Okay.

This is why you and I kept talking past each other despite our best efforts.

Okay.

Until you can see Jews as equally worthy as any other race, religion, or ethnicity, of having self-determination, inherent humanity, and a place to call home, it is difficult to have a discussion.

Then don’t. I never asked for a discussion with you, did I? In your eyes, I’m just a goy, and in my eyes, you don’t exist. Now, before you cry victim, it’s not because you’re a Jew; it’s because I’m done with your nonsense. 

Islam teaches that all humans are equal in their inherent worth, and no one is superior to another except by virtue of their character, faith, and good deeds. Supremacy based on worldly attributes like race or lineage is explicitly rejected in Islamic teachings.

"Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you."

(Quran 49:13)

This verse explicitly rejects any notion of superiority based on worldly factors like lineage or status, emphasizing that all humans are equal before Allah, and only their deeds and intentions distinguish them. The concept of equality is deeply rooted in Islamic teachings, fostering the idea that no one is inherently superior to another except through their moral and spiritual character. Knowing what you know about me, you'll know I'll adhere to Islamic teachings like a good citizen would adhere to laws.

I’ve never claimed superiority over you or anyone else. If you think otherwise, that’s your own twisted interpretation. My knowledge of Islam isn’t a claim to superiority; it’s simply my pursuit of what interests me. If you want proof of where I stand, ask someone who actually knows me. You’ll hear nothing about any "superiority complex" because it doesn’t exist. 

I could keep going, but history has taught me a valuable lesson: I can’t reach you unless you’re willing to break down those walls yourself. And frankly, I have no interest in wasting my time trying to do it for you.

Have a good last read and respect my wish not to interact with you in the future. I have no beef with you or any Jew or anyone of any religion. I am way too busy and occupied enough to not have even an ounce of hatred inside me. You will do your best to fit me in one of those boxes but you already know that you can't do it. 

Why not type “whoever dropped a bomb near that hospital is a piece of shit”?  It seems that your willingness to condemn this stuff is quite situational.

Which part of "I simply do not know" escaped your understanding? I thought your mentioning of the hospital was just metaphorical or someshit. I simply don't know enough to talk about it. And I have no clue about the bombing of a hospital. I don't have echo chambers or whatever else there is for me to update myself on the world news. 

SA, if I viewed this as some adversarial thing as you seem to, I would say it is too easy. But instead I try to communicate with people and understand where they are coming from.

First of all, can you quote to me where I said you are dishonest? I think you have a veil over your own eyes, and try to use questionable persuasion techniques because of the reason I mentioned in the post above, and that you viewed our discussions as against each other, whereas I viewed them as discussions with each other, if you can understand the difference. I hope and have faith that you can come around to a better understanding that gives all of us our humanity.

However, it looks like you've used a lot of keystrokes to say that you don't view some lives as worth more than others, only to follow by telling me why you view some lives as more than others. If you base your thoughts off of out of context scripture, you will necessarily run into contradictions like this, as you cite one piece of scripture to say that Islam views all as equal, and then cite another to say why a Muslim's duty is greater to other Muslims. Isn't that at odds with all being equal? I encourage you to think independently, outside the scripture, rather than retreat to someone else's interpretation of it when you are at a loss for words.

It is silly to claim i think of you as a "goy" and contradictory (again, not to mention inflammatory, discriminatory) to say I am playing some victim card at the same time you claim Jews are the victimizers. You know better. No need to resort to insults. We are both better than that.

I am sorry you do not wish to interact, but you do not get to exclude someone from Torn P&L by saying this. I am not attacking you directly or calling you names, I am interacting with your ideas and premises that you seek to spread to other people. If you want to try and spread your ideas, they need to stand up to scrutiny. You cannot exclude someone from interacting with your ideas simply because my arguments against them are too incisive. 

Why does it matter if you know who dropped the bomb?  It’s weird that this is the relevant question path for such a great humanitarian as yourself. 

You didn’t think it was metaphorical. I posted a URL to a news article right along with it. You just chose to ignore it because your concern is situational. 

Why does it matter if you know who dropped the bomb?

It doesn't. I need to know a bomb was dropped for me to know something happened, don't I? 

It’s weird that this is the relevant question path for such a great humanitarian as yourself. 

Okay.

You didn’t think it was metaphorical.

I just said I did. It's your words over mine. And it's my thoughts. 

 I posted a URL to a news article right along with it.

Didn't click it. Too long. I just answered your "experiment" and gave you a why. Now you can digest the why and here you are grinding me for another why and a how. 

You just chose to ignore it because your concern is situational. 

If by situational you mean I am highly ignorant of the situation in Syria, yes. I agree. 

It doesn't matter how much you hound me, Asbestos, I can't know what I don't know. 

No. But I can see where you choose to be deliberately ignorant. 

No jews, no news. 

Feet pics

As unlucky stated, he most certainly has discussed it with me, i'd guess half a dozen times or so, maybe even more. perhaps not in a few months - but there's no way in hell i'd accuse him of not caring or being concerned about it - he absolutely does care.

people talk about current events here, they have before this conflict, and they will after, your viciously cynical "antisemitism" smearing is so obviously malicious and deflective that all it accomplishes is make impossible to consider you sincere or genuine at all - it's just shrill propagandism, not even effective; i'd consider it emotional histrionics if i thought it was even slightly honest.

Cool speech, psycho. 

Triggered, nazi?

You know what groups say......

"Antisemitism is an excuse." 

And

"Jews are the endless victims" 

Neo Nazis.

The adamant and unapologetic ethnic cleansing supporter calling people Nazis. 🤣🤡

Jews are not endless victims - blooddrinking ultranationalists are endless victims.