Societal rift

Translation 

[image: images.dailykos.com]

Fascists, the biggest victims in the world, if only to themselves. 

We have electric transport via train or electro trucks. Electric cars are cheaper than fuel. Industry does run on wind energy. We also created physical "batteries" where the energy from wind can be stored (e.g. via water) so it can be used more flexibly. 

We have 0 blackouts. Never experienced even one here. 

I think so too. The hate grew with the ultra rich gap. The losers of society get turned against the even poorer or even more marginalized ones instead of against those who exploit them and make them poorer every day. 

But how to fix it? :(

Supporting electric BS green energy instead of pushing for nuclear energy... strange, but you do you, I guess.

It works really well here. We have lots and lots of wind. We cover more than 50% of our energy demand with green energy and also sell a lot. 

Nuclear energy poses the problem of waste, we are not allowed to recycle it. We have rusting barrels that leak radioactive waste into the ground water lying around in old mines. People chained themselves to rails to prevent this "solution". Also Tchernobyl was basically next door and we got affected by it a lot. 

Several studies showed bone cancer hotspots around nuclear plants here. So people really had enough of this shit.

Our energy infrastructure already was targeted by russian sabotage, and we prefer them sabotaging wind farms to sabotaging nuclear plants.

If you really want to get rid pf extremeism, then you have to tackle both sides. Oftentimes, one extremeist side will justify their existence by pointing to extremists on the opposite side.

Most people who join the extremist sides will do so for self preservation rather than 100% indoctrinated belief, although sometimes that is also the case. The only individuals truly "salvageable" are the ones that don't actually hold these positions deep down.

This is a quite reasonable nekorah post. I'll frame it. Jokes aside, please post more like this. This really is rational and makes sense. 

As to the "other extreme": That is not really much of a thing here. The AfD even had papers leaked where they wrote they want to frame the center and center-left as extremists. They did that with a judge recently and spread lies and misinformations about her. So most of "the other extreme", aka people who oppose the AfD denying the holocaust, is just people who used to be center a bit ago. So how to fix this? 

This is the same as every other post I make, lol. The only reason you like this one is because it supports your currently-held positions.

It'll honeslty depend a lot of the society in question. Something that would work spectacularly for Finland, as an example, wpuldn't necessarily work well for Spain.

What do you do with the new windmills in 20-25 years (if you are lucky and they last that long)?

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Yup, great for the environment. Then there is all the damage to wildlife and ecosystems to go along with it. Wind energy is terrible anyway you look at it. Nuclear waste has 2 drawbacks: waste, and it is a target for bad people. You cannot help one problem and the other problem (waste), every solution has this problem. The difference is that we can still do things with nuclear waste.  We can extract more material from "spent" fuel, and even in the process of learning how to change the isotopes into shorter-lived isotopes. 

The whole Chernobyl argument is old, to be honest. That is easily one of the worst preventable disasters I can think of. Did not have to happen if it wasn't for the complete incompetence of the folks working there that day. Thanks to them, we have wasted many valuable years that we can never get back while pushing for things even worse.

Edit- I read another post of yours and see you are talking about your country only. With this, I do not know anything about where you live, and I do apologize. I will say I'd advise folks to change the regulation so y'all can take care of the waste that is already there better.

Windmills will obviously require being deconstructed and tossing whatever cannot be recycled, but that is miniscule compared to the material used to make similar amounts of power with fossil fuels. Nuclear waste, while it can be handled safely, remains hazardous on millennia timescales which arguably makes it worse than anything in a wind turbine going into a landfill.

I'm not against nuclear power being a tool to use in decarbonizing, but the argument for it has been getting progressively weaker over the last 20 years.

Wind turbine and solar cell efficiency levels have been going up significantly and their deployment has been going up exponentially.

Nuclear power can be made safely, but a safe nuclear plant requires a massive amount of initial capital expenditure and constant monitoring. It has ended up being easier overall to install smaller decentralized power than big industrial plants. 

No, because it isn't full of fallacies or unbased claims. You voiced an opinion (with which I didn't agree btw because the left extreme is mainly a fabrication here, as even admitted in internal AfD papers) and you backed it up with proper arguments and commented on possible pschological reasons. That is not how you usually post. 

I agree that it might very much depend on the place. But in general I have no clue how this weird left boogeyman thing could be addressed. People are scared and facts don't work on them anymore

I don't employ the use of fallacies or unbased claims anyways, so....

They are already finding solutions to those long-term worries and even have folks like Elon making the best solution cheaper (launch it towards the sun).

Wind energy doesn't damage wildlife or environment in most cases. When they cause initial harm, the people building them are required to pay for measures to balance it out. E.g. to buy additional land somewhere that gets to be part of a nature reserve. Or to pay for planting new trees (more than were cut down). Our windmills are constantly monitored (including their sourrounding) and shut down for specific time slots if necessary. They last for 30 years but can in many cases run longer (like shelf-life they give the minimum years). 

The components you see on the picture would be recycled, the materials are too valueable to not be re-used. And before you even are allowed to build a windmill, the recycling contract + safety deposits need to be there. So waste really is not an issue we have with wind energy here. 

I live in germany. Due to WW2 we are banned from handling nuclear materials in specific ways. We signed the paris contracts in '54 which means we promised to never have nukes and to not do specific procedures that would be needed to handle nuclear waste. We had to pay france a shitload of money to recycle a bit of our waste. Much more was stored in unsafe places though and poses great dangers. And our plants were not safe (bone cancers in the nearby villages) and like I said russia already sabotaged our energy sources to force us to buy their gas and to destabilize our society. (They also attacked our train net)

So from our perspective nuclear power makes no sense. 

Eh, you might want to ask about everybody else and how they see it. Still, your post here was good and I hope you post similarly in the future.

Honestly just learned you can recycle the blades finally, but it is not a widespread practice. Maybe your country is doing it well, but most the world is not

There might be a few that last 30 years, but most are out in the 20-25 mark.

that explains why a country would go so far out of its way to try and find a workaround, fair enough. I mean no offense as well ma'am if any was taken.

I'd never bet money (or my future) on Eloon. And safety risks are very much a thing. In the USA you maybe can put nuclear plants in the desert, so that even a worst case drone strike or hack or missile are not catastrophic. In most other counties we only have populated areas, so the stakes are way higher, cause no proper safety perimeter is possible. 

No offense was taken. You have a strong opinion but that is ok. And you were honest, factual and reasonable and talking to you was a pleasure.

Remilia, you can't just claim someone lies, be presented with ample evidence that they are in fact saying the truth (i can give you even more proof if you'd like) and then just downvote them instead of acknowledging that you were wrong or apologize to them.