Do you differentiate between obvious fake wars vs predetermined termed wars with max loser caches (same energy expenditure as real war just like $20m to $50m less costs and no flight income).
Ranked War Payouts Improvement Proposal
Started by Wade [2220399] on in Suggestions.
Posts archived: 54 / 54 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
I think we've gotten off topic, I'm not sure how it's relevant to the thread and don't wanna hijack it.
You're also wrong. It's either
If you think I wouldn't term for an extended decay 100k+ score respect farming war with SMTH you would be wrong.
Or
If you don't think I wouldn't term for an extended decay 100k+ score respect farming war with SMTH you would be right.
Ot
If you don't think I would term for an extended decay 100k+ score respect farming war with SMTH you would be wrong.
Double negation=affirmation
The easiest nuclear way to fix this, if a war is deemed to be termed (fully termed as in not even a fight) then neither faction gets a payout and they’re both ranked down 1 place.
Termed wars would stop overnight, a few people would still chance it and it would need slight moderation but not on the scale I think people expect.
Agreeing no mercs etc all allowed, just end the timeout wars.
I think the challenge is that energy value is different at different stages.
If you imagined a war paid out exactly enough to pay every member for each hit they did at the cost of replacing that energy with 20e cans, most competitive diamond factions wouldn't be interested in adding like 200 hits extra per member just to get them that payout, that's just break-even on what most members would spend on that on that energy for training.
But a lot of lower level factions would be. For players who can barely afford xanax, 1.5m or whatever per 25e is a great payout, and it's worth rigging extra hits for more of it.
And a few factions where the key players are all in SE range would happily cheese wars for like $500k per hit extra since that buys them more in gains from SEs than spending 25e in the gym.
This definitely needs to be a wider discussion, with more examples of all the brackets, as at this stage a blanket change affecting everyone the same may not be the best solution. What I do think is likely is that you will be seeing more expensive wars at Diamond compared to the lower brackets, so perhaps my suggestion is probably target there primarily. If Ched isn't interested in adding any bonus payouts to incentivize factions to gamble and spend more on a potential win in drawn out big score competitive wars, perhaps he would at least consider lowering the 18k win ceiling at D3 to something more reasonable - such as 14 or 15k. (This does mean it will make certain time zones more advantageous for some, but I do believe people who war at D3 will figure out clever strategies to counter that - abroad turtling might become the norm instead of merc prehosping and so on.)
The main point is whilst competitive warring is great, people cannot help themselves and will spend insane amounts, because they enjoy the heat of battle. Any war lasting more than a day or two at D3 is a guaranteed financial loss, in many cases for both sides. What I am looking for is a viable solution to this and possibly encouraging more people to war proper, instead of rigging and money farming timed out "wars".
What I am looking for is a viable solution to this and possibly encouraging more people to war proper, instead of rigging and money farming timed out "wars".
I think the issue is that this suggestion doesn't meaningfully answer the question of how you further reward real wars, without making the system farmable.
Thats the thing, what I suggested would mean if someone wanted to farm, they would have to go through the motions of actually warring, keep hitting each other for days, for a high enough score, getting revived, retalling hits and whatnot. I very much doubt the people timing out wars would do that instead of what they are doing now - which is nothing.
I'm not so sure - isn't that the point that Q made above:
But a lot of lower level factions would be. For players who can barely afford xanax, 1.5m or whatever per 25e is a great payout, and it's worth rigging extra hits for more of it.
And a few factions where the key players are all in SE range would happily cheese wars for like $500k per hit extra since that buys them more in gains from SEs than spending 25e in the gym.
I am quite happy with the lead thresholds personally in wars right now. It shouldn't be too short to cause an extreme disadvantage if one faction starts off in a stronger tz
As for rewards, if judging whether its a termed / real war proves to be a challenge in scaling rewards based on that, I wouldn't mind seeing incentives for factions to chase a win - stuff like passive rewards tiered to each rank and within divisions. So that it encourages factions to not give away a loss and chase a win instead to climb up higher.
Sure some rich factions might want to pay off the other fac for a win - but then pretty much every system can be gamed through social interaction in a game like this and you'd have to imagine faction leaders would charge something exhorbitant to give up higher tier passive bonuses (say bonus gym gains/CE gains and such)
If we wanna ball, in addition to passive bonuses tiered to the rank, there could also be temporary passive debuffs for losing the previous war. And passive bonuses/debuffs on top for win streaks/loss streaks.
up
The problem here is expectations.
the war rigging gives folks an expectations of huge $m per hit and so they just don’t bother with real wars at all.
changing how much is paid won’t fix this. Only detected the bullshit properly will.
they already collect stats on cans xans etc used.
real wars have losses, assists and retals
cant be that hard to figure out a way to figure out real wars vs not
The issue is Ched doesn't care about wars being rigged, For the most part, factions that do enjoy terming wars, being able to train constantly and still make decent money from them, seems to be working for the majority. The issue is only for those, who actually enjoy warring and basically have to pay out of pocket for the long contested wars, which seems terrible game design to me. The current payout structure literally incentivizes you to do nothing, time out wars and collect a paycheck every week for 0 effort.
What I am proposing is a bonus payout for real wars, that go beyond what is deemed normal, which at least would help cover some of the costs.
R+