Banning of third party casinos

My issue is with the phrasing of "external sites requiring buy-ins for non Torn content". What does non-Torn content mean?

Casinos could be argued to provide Torn assets for Torn assets, as the game is just a funnel to convert xanax or whatever into other Torn assets, albeit typically at a reduced rate. 

Loss services could be argued to convert Torn assets into Torn merits. 

External trading sites could be argued to convert Torn cash into off-site Torn advertisements. 

The new offline trading website could be argued to convert Torn items into Torn cash, at a per-trader reduced rate. 

But besides that, why are you focusing exclusively on external sites when we have gambling right in Fun & Games and the Trading Post (xanax insurance).

Is there a reason xanax insurance isn't in fun & games?

Is there a reason fun & games isn't hidden when self excluded? 

If you're going to pretend this is about predatory services then be consistent. Stuff xanax insurance into fun & games and disable the forum when self-excluded. 

Yes

I’m just all in for ones freedom of choice. If someone chooses 3rd party casino that is better suited for them let them cook.

If someone has created better casino/experience for the player as a hobby than Torn’s paid devs.. well what can I even say here.. 

I still think this new change is only because Torn’s own casino loses gamblers. 

ps. I rarely do anything else than spin the wheel and never have used these 3rd party casinos.

The third party casinos should 100% be banned, I've been somewhat vocal about that when its come up in the past. I’m surprisingly passionate about this despite not having the time to type much now or in the past! They are nothing but exploitative and intentionally ignore blockers like casino ban or token limits.

the wording of this rule as it is now has already been brought up but it makes me think of something like TornW3b where you subscribe via Xanax to view market data and on a third party site, which may be included under torn content but thats probably pushing the line. 

I mean i can show them a rand(0,1) if 0.5 or over its a win, which is 50%, but 10s later change it to 0.4 or whatever. It is kinda hard to verify

The only way around this i can think of is using torn api, one that returns a random number or something similar (maybe odd/even on nanoseconds for a random log or something), still kinda hard to verify thats what im showing and not some made up number

Are discord bot services allowed to be advertised and sold to players still with this rule change/ammendment/interpretation?

They all operate in Xanax, fairly simple to track from that alone I’d imagine. Put them in fed to question what it’s for, if torn staff can provide evidence of them running a casino then they need to defend it, if there’s no evidence then they just need to explain what it’s for. Bam yer sorted 

Unless I grossly misunderstand how the API works, the self-exclusion issue some have mentioned, can be included in these trashy sites by insisting that a custom API is used, that checks if the end-user is self-excluded in Torn, in which case, it blocks their access to the other trashinos AND, setting a rule that the API needs to belong to the person using it.  However, enforcing that would be a ballache.

Also, as you eluded to other off-site games/sites, I have seen 1 recently that's NOT a casino, it's a trading card style site, using Torn items as the "collectibles."  My first impression was that it's just a worse version of a trashino, as there's 0 chance of getting anything tangible back* but, if done well enough, maybe with Torn support and not just dominated by whomever has the most pixel money, it could be something interesting.  🤔

And in case it's not already obvious, I'm for banning them.  There are plenty of casino style games people can download and play online (NOT involving real money) if they still desperately need that type of dopamine hit.  🤷🏻

* To be clear, I've not used it myself, yet and have no affiliation with it, it's just the only non-trashino site I've seen this year, that might fall under the rule you're looking to implement.

bogie will probably answer this, but that's how i understand it essentially. The issue i see is people claiming one thing (fair odds and all that) vs what is actually happening under the hood. And the fact there is no way to check how fair it is. It's essentially false advertising targeting gambling addicts, who are likely self-excluded on Torn casino and seek 3rd party sites to scratch the itch.

Well thats fair, kinda sucks i cant add gambling, wouldve been a fun little minigame :(

This is worded a little odd (or its a language barrier issue) so just to clarify. Torn cant really ban someone from running an external site, so is the purpose of this to ban advertising such services on Torn?

This is very sad as I have worked a lot on my casino and thought I could give people a nice experience doing something they enjoy. I always tried to be very fair and have people even tell me that my site enabled them to restrict their gambling to torn money instead of real money, which was obviously something I was happy to hear. 

But seeing so many Casinos pop up recently I kind of figured that a decision like this is not going to be long. 
Obviously I am happy to comply with an ruling made by Torn Staff but have to say I am quite sad to see the code I did spent over half a year on by now have to go to waste :(

I am already working on another project though which could not at all be considered shady and I hope that when I release it over the coming year I can genuinely give some value to the community that people can appreciate more than a casino.

Yep, everything looks right to me then, I think for the most part what I've seen is new players running and using these services, and I know at least one of the first ones the people running around talking it up were winning as long as they talked it up, and others were losing.

I honestly think there's no loss here, the Torn bookie is next level, the torn casino could always use improvement but stuff is there. The rest is Torn related and verifiable (like fac wars).

I think these services are just an easy way to run users and pull their money when they put a lot in, that's nothing but a negative experience that can be spread across a lot of users. It just doesn't need to exist. Yeah, the users should know better, but they simply seem to...not.

Yeah I suppose. I still feel like it's gonna be more complicated than bogie lead off. "So what I paid out 35 people Xanax. It was a discord giveaway, prove it wasn't".

Easy enough to prove it was, invite them to the discord it happened, if dates align then bam. 

get em out of here

Personally against this but on the sole purpose is that I use a discord server(Multi Bet Madness) to place accumalator bets. They are legit, run competitions & are in some ways, a community. The way to bet is pasting your torn bet log(You have placed X on X at X).

Whilst I agree these functions are overpopulated at current, Torn has had the chance to capatalise in that regard & improve the Casino.