Banning of third party casinos

if it was about legality why was he asking for the publics opinion? if it was against the rules/laws then he would have just done it and explained later. instead he decided to create a poll then do it. 

Because players need to understand it, poke holes in it, give feedback etc. so they can get ti right, or as close to right as possible day 1. It doesn't need to be about will we or wont we, they even said they expected the community to be behind it. It helped find where the community disagreed, what they missed, and how far reaching it is etc.

so shouldnt the post have been, hey due to eu laws and regulations we have to ban the 3rd party casinos and here is why then just list the reasons. then the discussion would have gone a lil different. would still get why the community disagrees with it but the way he did it seems like less of a eu laws/regulations thing and more of an i feel like doing it kinda ban

TORN gives you 2 choices; you can either play this game free of charge or spend real money on it
if TORN don't take the necessary steps or actions, the country's regulators will go forward and investigate the game's bad control of the 3rd party casinos since there's a lot of it, it's not even funny atp

the game's operation might be ceased temporarily, or worst; ceased to exist (but that's just my assumption) 
and the people who spends real money in this game, the time and efforts they put in this game will be gone to waste, veterans and newbies alike

P/S

in all seriousness, half of the kingdom is starving and Spain wants to invade :D

They will probably just ban the people. 

I bet the existing RMT detections would work just fine

I completely understand the reasoning behind this change, and I can appreciate why Torn wants to draw a clear line around third-party casinos, bookies and gambling services.

From Torn's perspective, I can understand the concerns around RMT, scams, lack of oversight and the possibility of external gambling services operating under the Torn name or using Torn currency without Torn having any control over what happens.

I don't have an issue with Torn wanting to protect its players from genuinely dodgy operators.

Where I do think there is room for discussion, though, is what happens to the legitimate services and, perhaps more importantly, whether Torn's own casino and bookie systems are good enough to replace what players are currently using outside the game.

DEFCON's point about Nexus Raffles is a good example of the other side of this.

Nexus wasn't created because someone wanted to exploit players. It was originally created because there was already a problem with scams and questionable third-party games. The idea was to build something transparent, using Torn currency and items, with published odds, logs and safeguards.

From what DEFCON has explained, Nexus deliberately tried to distinguish itself from the sketchier services. There were measures such as limits on how much of a raffle one person could own, transparency around odds and the ability for players to opt in or out of different types of games.

So I think there is an important distinction between:

"third-party gambling exists and some of it is dangerous"

and

"therefore every third-party gambling service is inherently the same."

I understand why Torn can't realistically police every external service and why exceptions can create loopholes. I also understand the argument that if raffles or bookies remain permitted outside Torn, casino operators could simply change their model and continue operating.

But that does mean legitimate services get caught in the same net as the bad ones.

And that brings me to what I think is the bigger question.

If we're closing the external alternatives, can Torn improve its own alternatives?

If Torn is going to say that players shouldn't be using external bookies because Torn provides its own bookie, then surely it makes sense to look seriously at why players are going elsewhere in the first place.

For example, accumulators are a massive part of real-world sports betting. If Torn's bookie doesn't offer the same sort of betting options that players can find elsewhere, it's hardly surprising that some people will look outside Torn for them.

Would it be possible to expand the Torn bookie so that it can offer accumulator bets?

Likewise, the roulette system could do with some attention.

At the moment, there are limitations around placing multiple bets and different amounts on the same number. These things may seem relatively minor, but when you're trying to recreate a proper bookie/casino experience, those limitations become frustrating.

If Torn wants players to stay within Torn, then making the official systems more competitive with the external alternatives seems like a logical step.

And then there's Blackjack.

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I'll be honest here: some of the results from the blackjack bot can feel absolutely ridiculous.

When you see things like the bot seemingly throwing two aces of the same suit, it immediately creates a perception problem. Whether that's actually a bug, an RNG issue, a visual issue or simply an extremely unlikely result, the player shouldn't be left wondering whether the system is behaving correctly.

If the casino is going to be the official and trusted place to gamble Torn money, then transparency around the RNG and verification that these systems are functioning correctly is extremely important.

I'm not saying "the casino is rigged" as a factual claim. I'm saying that when the outcomes look strange to players, Torn should understand that perception and transparency matter enormously.

I think Nexus actually demonstrates another possibility

Rather than simply killing the concept of item raffles completely, why not consider bringing a controlled version of them into Torn itself?

DEFCON made a particularly interesting suggestion here.

Imagine an official Torn raffle system where:

- Torn controls the RNG.

- All prizes remain within Torn.

- There are published odds.

- There is a maximum number of entries per player.

- There are different raffle tiers.

- Raffles can run daily, weekly or monthly.

- Players can enter using Torn currency or eligible items.

- Everything is completely auditable.

That could actually solve many of the problems that the new rule is trying to address.

A newer player could potentially spend the equivalent of a Xanax and have a chance of winning an item they otherwise couldn't afford.

At the same time, Torn would have complete control over the system, the RNG and the prizes.

It would also remove many of the problems associated with external services.

I think there is a bigger opportunity here

If Torn is closing down the external market because it doesn't want unregulated gambling associated with the game, then perhaps this shouldn't simply be viewed as:

"These services are no longer allowed."

It could instead be:

"These services aren't allowed because Torn is going to provide safer, properly controlled alternatives."

That would be a much more positive outcome for the community.

I completely accept that Torn cannot allow every external casino or bookie to operate simply because some of them claim to be legitimate. I also accept that protecting players and keeping Torn separated from RMT and unregulated gambling is important.

But there are genuine players who use these services because they offer things Torn currently doesn't.

So if the door is being closed on external bookies, raffles and casinos, I'd really like to see Torn look at improving the systems it already provides.

Give us better betting options.

Look seriously at accumulators.

Improve the roulette interface and betting functionality.

Audit and, where appropriate, explain the casino RNG.

Look at whether official item raffles could be introduced.

Essentially, if the argument is that players shouldn't need to leave Torn to gamble with their Torn assets, then I'd like to see Torn become good enough that they genuinely don't need to.

I think that's the constructive conversation worth having.

And ultimately, that's where I think DEFCON's Nexus post is important. It shows that not everybody operating one of these services was trying to exploit the community. Some people were actually trying to solve problems that already existed.

If Nexus has to disappear, I'd much rather see the good ideas behind it absorbed into Torn than simply disappear with it.

So can we finally get expanded bookie capabilities then?

It is ridiculous that Parlays/Multipliers don't exist in the Torn Bookie. 

This is kind of the bogie special though. Once he’s faced with a genuinely good community suggestion, constructive criticism, or even just an opinion he disagrees with that starts getting support, suddenly the replies dry up and that particular message gets mysteriously missed.

Been gone for years and apparently that part still hasn’t changed 😂

That said, I genuinely appreciate the love for Nexus and what I originally built for the community. Even after being away this long, seeing people remember what we were trying to do and appreciate it still means a lot to me.

Would still be nice to see bogie address the actual substance of this one rather than everything around it.

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He was going to ban the worst casinos anywyay. 

The main reason he came to the community for feedback was to decide whether it was worth saving the less egregious casinos and/or raffles.

In any event, the community has spoken.

New third party gambling. Message me for the link. $$$$

Because it's not. Anytime you read something like this, it's 100% PR Speak drivel. Come on now, it's the people who pride their self in being "less predatory than most mobile games".

"Sure we're a little predatory, but hey look over there. That guy is charging $300 for a gun skin".

While I do completely agree with banning this garbage,  it's just nonsensical to pretend like the real problem isn't torns bottom dollar. I guess the RMT fomo got the best of em.

 I brought this up awhile ago when it was being discussed in a thread in QnA.Load image

For anyone still tracking this thread, some relevant info from bogie in the Torn Discord server. Regardless of how we want this to go in the end, we should make ourselves look good for the near future.

Link

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cool thanks

I was okay with banning 3rd party casinos / raffles

Came to learn this extends into a ban on fantasy football among torn friends. We have been running a fantasy league for the past 20 years on torn where buyin is 250m a player among faction mates. It's just in good fun, and we're all mates that have known each other for a long time. There is no room for anyone to exploit or profit. Banning this because of 3rd party gambling websites is incredibly lame. Please review this and find a way to modify the rule to allow what we've always done with fantasy football. You could implement something into the rules where if there is any form of house edge or rake then it is disallowed, but if it's just a yahoo.com fantasy league among friends where 100% goes back to the players it's allowed.