Possible Ranked War loophole: outside damage, full war score, no Early Discharge

Possible Ranked War loophole: outside damage, full war score, no Early Discharge

I would like staff to investigate how outside assistance interacts with Ranked War scoring and Early Discharge.

During Ruined Chaos [48790] vs Chamber One [53744], war ID 49922, SkiralS [3023638], from a faction outside this war, repeatedly attacked Percival-Knight [3605111] alongside our opponents.

The concern is that an outsider can do almost all the damage, while a member of the opposing faction contributes very little, takes the hospitalize result and earns full war score. The resulting hospitalization is treated as a war hit, apparently leaving the defender without Early Discharge.

These are specific examples from the attack logs:

25 September, 18:03 CEST

• SkiralS: 2,796 damage
  - le0ti: 64 damage
  - le0ti received the hospitalize result and 13.29 war score.
  - The outsider dealt approximately 97.8% of their combined damage.
•  

https://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=1593a859b2dceefa1bf778ccbc6b6e24

25 September, 18:10 CEST

• SkiralS: 1,898 damage
  - NotExtinctDodo: 294 damage
  - le0ti: 0 damage
  - NotExtinctDodo received the hospitalize result and 17.51 war score.
  - The outsider dealt approximately 86.6% of the attackers’ damage.
•  

https://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=2a4f36cb5590f3300a1abba5b8e20b9d

26 September, 01:07 CEST

• SkiralS: 3,040 damage
  - le0ti: 135 damage
  - le0ti received the hospitalize result and 17.00 war score.
  - The outsider dealt approximately 95.7% of their combined damage.
•  

https://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=ab52300f49c95cde8cdb25cfc0ba6ebf

Across the checked period, there were 10 hospitalizations of this player where SkiralS assisted and Chamber One received a combined 151.95 war score. SkiralS also won two separate mugging attacks himself; those were correctly marked as non-ranked attacks and are excluded from that score.

From the defender’s perspective, this has much the same practical effect as using bounties to bring in outside hitters: someone outside the war helps repeatedly remove a player from the fight. However, allowing a war opponent to take the final result appears to avoid the Early Discharge protection associated with an outside hit, while also generating war score.

I am not claiming that a bounty was placed or that anyone was paid. The comparison concerns the effect on the war.

This can have a major competitive impact: an outside player supplies most of the damage, the opposing faction collects the score, and the defender faces hospital time and pressure on medical cooldown. In the examples above, the faction receiving the score contributed as little as 64 or 135 damage.

Could staff confirm whether this is intended?

Should a hospitalization still count as an ordinary war hit, with no Early Discharge, when almost all the damage comes from outside the war? If so, what prevents this from effectively bypassing the protection against outside interference?

Please investigate both the scoring and Early Discharge classification in these mixed attacks. The logs show a repeated pattern, rather than a single incidental assist.

This is intended, yes. Outsiders can still spend their energy to "help" an insider.

And in most cases those ARE paid for assistance, just like how you can also pay for mercenary hits...

(And if the faction you are warring also starts a territory war so that they can spend an extra 5 energy when coming out of hospital to climb into the wall, they can also be hit immediately by an outsider without the 60 second war interference delay, which is also intended so that factions cannot use a ranked war just to avoid being knocked off a wall)

So what's the difference between early discharge after being bounties and use mercenary? It's all the same 

If in both situations you mean to pay an outsider to defeat the enemy - no, they are identical and both would give ED.

If you meant the difference between a bounty and paying for assistance:

In one situation you are just paying one person to use their E with no involvement from yourself whatsoever - this is purely an outside hit. You did not arrange anything with the person claiming the bounty, you are not involved with whoever takes it, you just set the bounty and ignored it. Early discharge will be given because they were not taken down by their RW opponents.

In the other you are paying and co-ordinating with someone else to use their energy ALONGSIDE you, where you are also making an attack AND finishing them off - this is no longer an outside hit. You are directly involved with that person's attack.

This is just logic/justification for it - in reality it is purely a "who gets the final hit matters" :)

Edit: Of course with the bounty method the outside person is being paid by the bounty, for the assistance hiring they would be paid separately by the faction. Added more words to my bit above, but the basic gist is "they had to work with the person to make it count as an inside hit" :)

Edit2: You will also find quite a few where the assistance is using a bleed or other DoT weapon, because that damage counts for whoever is making the attack each round - so they can proc a high damage over time effect and then let your opponent keep attacking, with that DOT counting as being done by your opponent too, so even if their normal hits are weak they can take you down.

https://www.torn.com/loader.php?sid=attackLog&ID=1593a859b2dceefa1bf778ccbc6b6e24

Do you see here finall hit of leoti who is our enemy ?

Yes, that is the Damage Over Time effect I mentioned in my previous post.

That poison was counted as being leoti damaging percival-knight.

But origin of poison was not from leoti, right ?

Correct, but that does not matter.

Damage Over Time is always credited to whoever is taking that turn.

It is why leoti shows as doing 64 damage even though he didn't hit the target in the fight.

Sooooo, basically You agree with me it is a bug, right ? And they are exploiting it 

It's not a bug. The damage over time being credited to the last person doing an action is working as intended. Outside assistance is not a bug, it's using available game mechanics cleverly

Not a bug, not easy for the devs to prevent without affecting other parts of the game and it is 100% allowed

At no point have I said it is a bug, I said how it works.

That is always how DOT has worked, it is the intended game mechanic.

Your opponents are not using any bugs, they are spending their money and potential war profits on outside help in the hope the caches will reward them with more than they spend.

https://wiki.torn.com/wiki/Damage_over_time

Not a bug but also not likely a paid hit, at least not in Bronze with no rank up mechanic. More likely this is a baby faction of the assister's faction. Many faction family or alliance servers have a pillow squad chat for asking for outside assistance with war hits. Meaning you're likely not going to see this mechanic used against you again anytime soon. 

DOT damage is specifically part of the pillow squad load out. So bleed, burn, or poison, and a pillow for giving distraction for the war attacker's hits. 

The person making the hits is also in Bronze, is not currently in a war, and has the normal stat distribution of a faction designed to try and farm caches - I wouldn't discount it being paid for :)

(or a RL friend/multi of the person they kept helping, who knows)

SkiralS is in Luck & Loaded which was brought form Plat to Silver with the matchup rework. I would not discount L&L from having a baby faction, whether allied/familied or just friendly, especially knowing they ranked down bc Prynce left to make a different baby faction (out of my former shell actually). 

Luck & Loaded... Chamber One... Kind of a theme going here. Could be coincidence... But Chamber One's leader is in L&L (candle shop) with SkiralS.... 

Anyway with $890m payout for a real war in Bronze I don't see how paid pillow squad would be in any way profitable. OP's last war (a stomp) had 900+ hits bringing pay well under a xanax per hit after faction cut. Chamber One had a similar war (a stomp) with 400+ hits - looks like they have some better advice backing them on how to maximize respect per hit. All indications of family backing for Chamber One... 

Edit: SkiralS confirmed in DM. 

At no point has anyone agreed with you that this is a bug, its a feature.

Thanks for answering.now I know new tactic 🙂

You gonna accuse me of cheating on stats too? xD