HammerTime: forum

This was raised before by damaster [641864] back in a 2021 thread titled ".44 Ammo Missing Special Types”. Credit to him for highlighting and raising it originally. That was nearly five years ago now, so I think it is worth bringing the subject back up with some extra real-world evidence including updated links and some in-game comparisons.

Original thread:
https://www.torn.com/forums.php?a=0&b=0&f=19&p=threads&t=16245144

The motion to explore here is:

Why do .44 Special Rounds only have Hollow Point available when Tracer, Piercing and Incendiary .44 ammunition all exist in the real-world, or have very close examples?

I appreciate that 'at the time of programming', these specific types of special rounds may not have existed or been in general circulation, however, as things have moved on I would question whether this is still strictly the case? In comparison to special ammo categorisation for a number of other weapons in the game, I would suggest that the limited variety of .44 Special Rounds now feels like an odd exception, and is perhaps worth another look.

The real-world case:

.44 Tracer ammunition

There are real-world .44 visual-trace rounds. Ammo Inc.’s STREAK ammunition has been reported in both .44 Special and .44 Magnum.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/ammo-inc-streak-visual-ammunition/

There are also collector/specialist references to .44 Magnum tracer-type ammunition, such as .44 Rem Magnum Red Super Tracer.

https://gumgully.com/product-tag/super-tracer/

So while it may not be common, the idea of .44 tracer or tracer-like ammunition is certainly not fantasy.

.44 Piercing ammunition

Piercing is slightly more awkward because real-world “armour-piercing” handgun ammunition gets into legal definitions. But if we are talking more broadly about 'enhanced-penetration' .44 ammunition, there is a clear basis for argument.

There are references to .44 S&W Special Black KTW, with KTW ammunition historically associated with hard-barrier penetration.

https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-sw-special-black-ktw-w-w-44-sw-spl/

There are also modern .429 Xtreme Penetrator bullets suitable for .44 Special and .44 Magnum, designed around deep, straight-line penetration.

https://lehighdefense.com/429-diameter-250-grain-xtreme-penetrator-bullets-50-count.html

These examples show that .44 enhanced-penetration ammunition has a real-world counterpart.

.44 Incendiary ammunition

Real-world .44 Magnum incendiary examples do exist. Collectible ammunition references include a .44 Magnum Purple Tip Incendiary, a .44 Remington Magnum Strommen-Trickel Blue Tip Incendiary, and a .44 Remington Magnum Clark Custom Purple Tip FUBAR Incendiary.

https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-magnum-purple-tip-incendiary/
https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-remington-magnum-strommen-trickel-blue-tip-incendiary-sw-44-rem-mag/
https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-remington-magnum-clark-custom-purple-tip-fubar-incendiary-w-w-super-44-rem-mag/

These examples show that .44 incendiary ammunition is not fictional. If Incendiary ammunition is already available for other ammo types in Torn, isn’t there a solid real-world basis for .44 Special Round Incendiary to be considered as well?

The in-game consistency case:

This is where .44 Special Rounds start to look like the odd one out.

Other ammo types already have access to special ammunition options that are comparable, smaller or arguably less obvious candidates.

For example:

• .380 ACP Round with Incendiary and Piercing
• 9mm Parabellum Round with Hollow Point, Incendiary, Piercing and Tracer
• 5.56mm Rifle Round with Hollow Point, Incendiary, Piercing and Tracer
• 5.45mm Rifle Round with Piercing
• 12 Gauge Cartridge with Incendiary and Tracer

Mission Shop source:
https://wiki.torn.com/wiki/Mission_shop

This is the strongest argument for me.

If .380 ACP can have Piercing and Incendiary, if 9mm can have the full special ammo set, and if 12 Gauge can have specialist ammo types, then it seems reasonable that .44 Special Round should not be limited to just Hollow Point alone.

This is especially true when there are real-world .44 examples for all three missing categories: Tracer/visual-trace, Piercing/enhanced-penetration and Incendiary.

Why revisit it now?

In the original 2021 thread, Ched said the decision was intentional and believed to be based on real-world information at the time.

Nearly five years on, I feel there is now enough evidence to support revisiting that position. Real-world .44 examples exist for Tracer, Piercing and Incendiary ammunition, and Torn already gives comparable or smaller ammo types access to similar special ammo options.

For that reason, I propose that .44 Special Rounds should now be reconsidered for:

.44 Special Round Tracer

.44 Special Round Piercing

.44 Special Round Incendiary

This would make the special ammo system feel more consistent and would bring .44 into line with other ammo categories that already have broader special ammo support.

My request would be that someone from the team please take a fresh look at this request and advise whether it is something that can be reconsidered?

And if there is anything else that myself or perhaps other players can provide (better sources, more comparisons, or a clearer supporting cases) I’d be happy to help.

If there is any support for this motion can I please request of the good (and bad) citizens of Torn, to upvote this post and ideally share it with your friends and faction colleagues - Thanks :)

$700k per escape. 50% deposit to reserve your slot and then 50% the day before we start.
Your Battle Stats don’t matter - I can escape from any level of player.

- Limited number to sell with 1350 already booked.

- Competitively priced from a trustworthy vendor.
- The perfect opportunity to acquire up to three rare Escape Merits (‘Ego Smashing’, ‘Underestimated’ and ‘Run Forrest Run’).

If you are interested just comment below or send me a DM.

Only 40 mins left at auction for the Specialist - Assassinate Magnum.

HUGE damage on the first shot making it more like a Red weapon rather than Orange!
Fit it with a trigger mod to land the first shot and there will be plenty of 'one hit kills' on the cards.
A unique bonus combo on a high damage Secondary Weapon like the Magnum. A fun way to start to any battle :)

[image: i.imgur.com]

Only 24 hours left before this 31 Specialist Stoner has it's slot at auction. 

A beautiful gun that hits like a truck at around 105 damage with the additional increase. It also has a really nice ROF meaning you get plenty of shots away before your ammo runs out (perfect with the Specialist bonus). I've used this as my primary for the past few months and it's a great damage dealer especially following an Eviscerate melee and fitted with a laser mod. Get your bids in at the auction house now and good luck :)

[image: i.imgur.com]

I wanted to flag a special ammo consistency issue that I think is worth a look.

In short, .44 Special Round currently only has Hollow Point available in Torn, with no Tracer, Piercing or Incendiary options.

I’ve put together a suggestion arguing that this should be reconsidered as there are now real-world .44 examples, or very close equivalents, for all three missing ammo types. Other comparable ammo types in Torn also already have broader special ammo options.

You can check out the full suggestion, sources and comparisons here:

[Link to the suggestion]

Full disclosure, I’m posting this in General Discussion because I know a lot of players don’t regularly browse Suggestions and apparently it needs at least 250 upvotes before it gets reviewed by the dev team. It’s currently around 25, so I have a lot of work to do!

Anyway, if you think the argument might hold some water or are just interested to learn more, please feel free to check it out.

Thanks for giving it a glance :)

Monthly bump.
Many more upvotes required before the developers can look at this.
All positive comments, shares and thumbs up are very much appreciated :)

Bump

Bumping again. The quest to get enough upvotes for the dev team to review is real!

Bumping this up for some visibility.

Trying to get some visibility for this again. Still a long way to go before we get 250 upvotes. If you like the idea, please feel free to comment and upvote. Thanks for all of the support so far.

Thanks for the kind words and upvote my friend. It's very much appreciated :)

Rotten Egg - Bonus: STINKIN

Procs on a head shot with new Rotten Egg Special Ammo. As your opponent wipes a green coloured and foul smelling handful of egg yoke from their face, they become ‘STINKIN’. All faction-mates at the same location immediately have their happiness reduced by 50%. Their spouse (if they have one) auto divorces them. They cannot fly on public aircraft for a period of 24 hours.

Love the idea for smoke and tear gas grenade special rounds. 
I also think it's pretty safe to say that "incendiary" crossbow bolts (arrows) have been around for centuries so no excuses there ;)

I didn't set out to break any rules here, and I'm hoping I haven't?

My intention is just to raise some awareness for a suggestion posted in a separate forum, that I genuinely feel could be of interest to a number of other players in the game.

I'm very grateful for the extra reads that it has received following this post, but if it is seen to be breaking some rules then I will accept it being deleted and I apologise for the wrong doing.

I wanted to flag a special ammo consistency issue that I think is worth a look.

In short, .44 Special Round currently only has Hollow Point available in Torn, with no Tracer, Piercing or Incendiary options.

I’ve put together a suggestion arguing that this should be reconsidered as there are now real-world .44 examples, or very close equivalents, for all three missing ammo types. Other comparable ammo types in Torn also already have broader special ammo options.

You can check out the full suggestion, sources and comparisons here:

[Link to the suggestion]

Full disclosure, I’m posting this in General Discussion because I know a lot of players don’t regularly browse Suggestions and apparently it needs at least 250 upvotes before it gets reviewed by the dev team. It’s currently around 25, so I have a lot of work to do!

Anyway, if you think the argument might hold some water or are just interested to learn more, please feel free to check it out.

Thanks for giving it a glance :)

Bump

Up

up

Yes, absolutely. The argument is purely to get the extra special rounds introduced for .44 ammo, in line with the evidence proving that they exist irl. Hopefully we can continue to get the support and upvotes required to enable this motion to be reviewed by the dev team.

This was raised before by damaster [641864] back in a 2021 thread titled ".44 Ammo Missing Special Types”. Credit to him for highlighting and raising it originally. That was nearly five years ago now, so I think it is worth bringing the subject back up with some extra real-world evidence including updated links and some in-game comparisons.

Original thread:
https://www.torn.com/forums.php?a=0&b=0&f=19&p=threads&t=16245144

The motion to explore here is:

Why do .44 Special Rounds only have Hollow Point available when Tracer, Piercing and Incendiary .44 ammunition all exist in the real-world, or have very close examples?

I appreciate that 'at the time of programming', these specific types of special rounds may not have existed or been in general circulation, however, as things have moved on I would question whether this is still strictly the case? In comparison to special ammo categorisation for a number of other weapons in the game, I would suggest that the limited variety of .44 Special Rounds now feels like an odd exception, and is perhaps worth another look.

The real-world case:

.44 Tracer ammunition

There are real-world .44 visual-trace rounds. Ammo Inc.’s STREAK ammunition has been reported in both .44 Special and .44 Magnum.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/ammo-inc-streak-visual-ammunition/

There are also collector/specialist references to .44 Magnum tracer-type ammunition, such as .44 Rem Magnum Red Super Tracer.

https://gumgully.com/product-tag/super-tracer/

So while it may not be common, the idea of .44 tracer or tracer-like ammunition is certainly not fantasy.

.44 Piercing ammunition

Piercing is slightly more awkward because real-world “armour-piercing” handgun ammunition gets into legal definitions. But if we are talking more broadly about 'enhanced-penetration' .44 ammunition, there is a clear basis for argument.

There are references to .44 S&W Special Black KTW, with KTW ammunition historically associated with hard-barrier penetration.

https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-sw-special-black-ktw-w-w-44-sw-spl/

There are also modern .429 Xtreme Penetrator bullets suitable for .44 Special and .44 Magnum, designed around deep, straight-line penetration.

https://lehighdefense.com/429-diameter-250-grain-xtreme-penetrator-bullets-50-count.html

These examples show that .44 enhanced-penetration ammunition has a real-world counterpart.

.44 Incendiary ammunition

Real-world .44 Magnum incendiary examples do exist. Collectible ammunition references include a .44 Magnum Purple Tip Incendiary, a .44 Remington Magnum Strommen-Trickel Blue Tip Incendiary, and a .44 Remington Magnum Clark Custom Purple Tip FUBAR Incendiary.

https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-magnum-purple-tip-incendiary/
https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-remington-magnum-strommen-trickel-blue-tip-incendiary-sw-44-rem-mag/
https://collectibleammunition.com/product/44-remington-magnum-clark-custom-purple-tip-fubar-incendiary-w-w-super-44-rem-mag/

These examples show that .44 incendiary ammunition is not fictional. If Incendiary ammunition is already available for other ammo types in Torn, isn’t there a solid real-world basis for .44 Special Round Incendiary to be considered as well?

The in-game consistency case:

This is where .44 Special Rounds start to look like the odd one out.

Other ammo types already have access to special ammunition options that are comparable, smaller or arguably less obvious candidates.

For example:

• .380 ACP Round with Incendiary and Piercing
• 9mm Parabellum Round with Hollow Point, Incendiary, Piercing and Tracer
• 5.56mm Rifle Round with Hollow Point, Incendiary, Piercing and Tracer
• 5.45mm Rifle Round with Piercing
• 12 Gauge Cartridge with Incendiary and Tracer

Mission Shop source:
https://wiki.torn.com/wiki/Mission_shop

This is the strongest argument for me.

If .380 ACP can have Piercing and Incendiary, if 9mm can have the full special ammo set, and if 12 Gauge can have specialist ammo types, then it seems reasonable that .44 Special Round should not be limited to just Hollow Point alone.

This is especially true when there are real-world .44 examples for all three missing categories: Tracer/visual-trace, Piercing/enhanced-penetration and Incendiary.

Why revisit it now?

In the original 2021 thread, Ched said the decision was intentional and believed to be based on real-world information at the time.

Nearly five years on, I feel there is now enough evidence to support revisiting that position. Real-world .44 examples exist for Tracer, Piercing and Incendiary ammunition, and Torn already gives comparable or smaller ammo types access to similar special ammo options.

For that reason, I propose that .44 Special Rounds should now be reconsidered for:

.44 Special Round Tracer

.44 Special Round Piercing

.44 Special Round Incendiary

This would make the special ammo system feel more consistent and would bring .44 into line with other ammo categories that already have broader special ammo support.

My request would be that someone from the team please take a fresh look at this request and advise whether it is something that can be reconsidered?

And if there is anything else that myself or perhaps other players can provide (better sources, more comparisons, or a clearer supporting cases) I’d be happy to help.

If there is any support for this motion can I please request of the good (and bad) citizens of Torn, to upvote this post and ideally share it with your friends and faction colleagues - Thanks :)

Thanks for confirming. That will teach me for tiding up my inventory after midnight.
Looks like the cattle prod must have got lumped in with the dozens of knuckle dusters and pen knives I was selling on to Al :(

I've just had the same thing happen to me.
My trusty cattle prod that I use in one of my defensive load-outs appears to have gone awol?

The melee slot was empty when I went into a fight earlier. I can't find any evidence on the logs to suggest that I have sold, dumped or given it away. Last time that I could find that I unequipped it was when we were warring about a month ago. Gutted as it was a good quality CP.

Is this a known bug?

Great war and big respect to the Pusheen Army 💪🏼
It was clear from your first big assault that it was going to be a tough one. We had to put in some solid work to take back the lead.
Good luck going forward and hopefully we get drawn together again in the future.

Great war Pain Inc. We had to work hard for that victory and I had to consume WAY more energy drinks than I intended to!
You were well organised, well armed and your pushes were relentless. It's fair to say that we were all suitably impressed.

Best of luck going forward and hopefully our paths cross again in the future.

Well done on organising this event to bring awareness to such a terrible disease. I'm really happy to read that you got to ring the bell and I wish you all the very best for the future 🩷