I can tell a thing, based on my experience - you can release, let's say a public beta now, or you can do the same after a year, or 2, or 3... In real wrold it will most likely still have some problems, not depending on how heavy the tests was - and we are talking about very massive update! The question is how fast this can be solved, and with new foundation it's much easier than it was before. Also, we seems to not have any real serious issues, 99% of all bugs are related to interface, we just need some time to deal with it.
Respo ? Rushed
Started by Lapooda [587085] on in General Discussion.
Posts archived: 103 / 103 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
I can tell a thing, based on my experience - you can release, let's say a public beta now, or you can do the same after a year, or 2, or 3... In real wrold it will most likely still have some problems, not depending on how heavy the tests was - and we are talking about very massive update! The question is how fast this can be solved, and with new foundation it's much easier than it was before. Also, we seems to not have any real serious issues, 99% of all bugs are related to interface, we just need some time to deal with it.
how come you didnt interface it on a test server with all of old torn and respo cause the people testing would have came across all these problems
Robb-Stark [1075937]how come you didnt interface it on a test server with all of old torn and respo cause the people testing would have came across all these problems
I meant that even it was tested well (and it was, with staff members and committee) we still can have problems - and that's only a question of how fast this can be fixed. You can't write a unit test to check if people will like some changes or not.
Mentions: Robb-Stark [1075937]
aurel1 [1046304]Robb-Stark [1075937]how come you didnt interface it on a test server with all of old torn and respo cause the people testing would have came across all these problems
I meant that even it was tested well (and it was, with staff members and committee) we still can have problems - and that's only a question of how fast this can be fixed. You can't write a unit test to check if people will like some changes or not.
The problems people people are describing are not just based on what changes they like or not. Some of these things are outright stupid! Had this shit been released in a cooperate world, Chedburn and his developers would have been out of business.
Yes I'm in software development, yes I work with Business-to-business and governmentalWeb-development.
How Chedburn is treating his customers is outright disrespectful.
I try not to voice my opinions very loudly here in public forum, however plenty of people here know my opinions toward this release.
As I have not been here for 2000k+ days, I somehow (for god knows what reason) still have faith in Chedburn getting his act together.
But lets just say, this was definitely far from an optimal release, and had this been in my line of business I would have had to hurry up with a ton of apologies and working day and night to fix it, keeping my customers up-to-date with information.
What we are seeing here, is a team of developers leaving their customers in the unknown, not a single word have been said since the release of Respo.
If there was some public information regarding the MAYOR problems: Faction bank, warbase, slim viewport, etc, people would be much more inclined to stay peaceful.
However the acts of silence definitely brings the bad side up in your customers, and if there is no information coming the upcoming days, I'm sure people will start an outcry.
Cater to your customer, not your own ego!
Also aurel:
No matter how much testing there was, Chedburn still messed up. Many of the issues, bugs and exploits have been put forth by testers, however apparently there was no reason to fix or listen to the testers.
Plenty of these exploits still exists today, plenty of these bugs and issues also exists today. WHY?
There is absolutely no excuse for this release, other than poor management and judgement.
Edit:
When 5% of your customers disappear within 2 days, you know the shit's sinking.
Mentions: aurel1 [1046304] · Robb-Stark [1075937]
cyberdude [1613175]aurel1 [1046304]Robb-Stark [1075937]how come you didnt interface it on a test server with all of old torn and respo cause the people testing would have came across all these problems
I meant that even it was tested well (and it was, with staff members and committee) we still can have problems - and that's only a question of how fast this can be fixed. You can't write a unit test to check if people will like some changes or not.
The problems people people are describing are not just based on what changes they like or not. Some of these things are outright stupid! Had this shit been released in a cooperate world, Chedburn and his developers would have been out of business.
Yes I'm in software development, yes I work with Business-to-business and governmentalWeb-development.
How Chedburn is treating his customers is outright disrespectful.
I try not to voice my opinions very loudly here in public forum, however plenty of people here know my opinions toward this release.
As I have not been here for 2000k+ days, I somehow (for god knows what reason) still have faith in Chedburn getting his act together.
But lets just say, this was definitely far from an optimal release, and had this been in my line of business I would have had to hurry up with a ton of apologies and working day and night to fix it, keeping my customers up-to-date with information.
What we are seeing here, is a team of developers leaving their customers in the unknown, not a single word have been said since the release of Respo.
If there was some public information regarding the MAYOR problems: Faction bank, warbase, slim viewport, etc, people would be much more inclined to stay peaceful.
However the acts of silence definitely brings the bad side up in your customers, and if there is no information coming the upcoming days, I'm sure people will start an outcry.
Cater to your customer, not your own ego!
Also aurel:
No matter how much testing there was, Chedburn still messed up. Many of the issues, bugs and exploits have been put forth by testers, however apparently there was no reason to fix or listen to the testers.
Plenty of these exploits still exists today, plenty of these bugs and issues also exists today. WHY?
There is absolutely no excuse for this release, other than poor management and judgement.
Edit:
When 5% of your customers disappear within 2 days, you know the shit's sinking.
Can't like this enough. Sometimes things f**k up and take time. The customer service fail is however ridiculous and inexcusable.
Mentions: aurel1 [1046304] · cyberdude [1613175] · Robb-Stark [1075937]
cyberdude [1613175]aurel1 [1046304]Robb-Stark [1075937]how come you didnt interface it on a test server with all of old torn and respo cause the people testing would have came across all these problems
I meant that even it was tested well (and it was, with staff members and committee) we still can have problems - and that's only a question of how fast this can be fixed. You can't write a unit test to check if people will like some changes or not.
The problems people people are describing are not just based on what changes they like or not. Some of these things are outright stupid! Had this shit been released in a cooperate world, Chedburn and his developers would have been out of business.
Yes I'm in software development, yes I work with Business-to-business and governmentalWeb-development.
How Chedburn is treating his customers is outright disrespectful.
I try not to voice my opinions very loudly here in public forum, however plenty of people here know my opinions toward this release.
As I have not been here for 2000k+ days, I somehow (for god knows what reason) still have faith in Chedburn getting his act together.
But lets just say, this was definitely far from an optimal release, and had this been in my line of business I would have had to hurry up with a ton of apologies and working day and night to fix it, keeping my customers up-to-date with information.
What we are seeing here, is a team of developers leaving their customers in the unknown, not a single word have been said since the release of Respo.
If there was some public information regarding the MAYOR problems: Faction bank, warbase, slim viewport, etc, people would be much more inclined to stay peaceful.
However the acts of silence definitely brings the bad side up in your customers, and if there is no information coming the upcoming days, I'm sure people will start an outcry.
Cater to your customer, not your own ego!
Also aurel:
No matter how much testing there was, Chedburn still messed up. Many of the issues, bugs and exploits have been put forth by testers, however apparently there was no reason to fix or listen to the testers.
Plenty of these exploits still exists today, plenty of these bugs and issues also exists today. WHY?
There is absolutely no excuse for this release, other than poor management and judgement.
Edit:
When 5% of your customers disappear within 2 days, you know the shit's sinking.
Perhaps I missed something, but it was actually said that fixes will come up in near time (and I am actually talking about this as a staff member and server-side dev, right? So I not sure, why you are talking about leaving you in unknown?). Also, if we talk about "optimum" release we should ask if previous Torn version was so good that we don't need to change anything? If you work in this area you may know, how difficuilt is to rebuild something almost from stratch (and in case of old engine the rebuild was very huge). Some current client problems are more the like/dislike question, of course, there are still many bugs, but this will be fixed in near time.
Mentions: aurel1 [1046304] · cyberdude [1613175] · Robb-Stark [1075937]
Fighting with the customer - genius!
Ugh.
daphne [14757]Fighting with the customer - genius!
Ugh.
It's not fight, just a conversation. I don't think that will be better to say: "hey, it's all ok, I will simply ignore you"[:smiley:]
Mentions: McDallas [14757]
Maybe it would be a great thing to open a sticky in the suggestion forum and have people from the staff to discuss with the players.
The discussion should be about the things that need to be changed to make the game more practicable. (Things about minor changes that are easy to correct).
This topic would have clear rules like no flamming, no post without arguments just to get a real feedback.
RESPO seems very good and I only see some minors change to make (energy left can't be seen when training in the gym with the mobile version, we don't see our events like before, we're obliged to check it) ect ...
Argh [138737]Maybe it would be a great thing to open a sticky in the suggestion forum and have people from the staff to discuss with the players.
The discussion should be about the things that needs to be changed to make the game more practicable. (Things about minor changes that are easy to correct).
This topic would have clear rules like no flamming, no post without arguments just to get a real feedback.
RESPO seems very good and I only see some minors change to make (energy left can't be seen when training in the gym with the mobile version, we don't see our events like before, we're obliged to check it) ect ...
I already suggested something like this, can be a good solution.
Mentions: argh [138737]
The war base and related issues are actually pee'ing me off.
I know its early days but half of the fun of this game is warring, which has now been made ridiculously over complicated and we cannot claim victory...so what is the point?
Wars are also not dropping off the war base so once this is fixed we will just have empty war bases? If so thats complete BS as there is no point attacking at the moment....!!!
aurel1 [1046304]daphne [14757]Fighting with the customer - genius!
Ugh.
It's not fight, just a conversation. I don't think that will be better to say: "hey, it's all ok, I will simply ignore you"[:smiley:]
![[:smiley:]](https://www.torn.com/images/v2/smiles/face_01.gif){kind=link}
I think I'm transferring onto you a general feeling of "what problems, we don't have problems, stop complaining" that I'm getting from torn management.
Sometimes the customer just wants to be heard, and turning off things like bugs and issues and a general sense of we don't care, you guys just have to wait, doesn't allow for that.
You know, some things are real easy to fix, like, thank you for your patience, we understand that the current trial is hard, and would like to offer you a dp for the next month to make up for the frustration. Or something that makes it seem like you actually value your customers.
I'm not fishing for a dp, it could be a couple bottles of beer for all i care, or just proper announcements/communication and adressing of issues even, a simple interest in your customer base, people who used to be your fans and suddenly aren't. It's the attitude that's the issue.
We have no choice but to be patient. Many of us lost a game we loved and have been loyal to and contributed towards for many years, and your come back is "wait". Wait for what? We waited for respo and it was a slap in the face for some of us. And we'll wait for your changes and updates and fixes, but it won't leave us feeling any better towards you. It's not gonna suddenly lift the disappointment of how you treat your customers just because we can now end wars and log in normally. You're killing something that goes way beyond your bug fixes. This is a community, we're people, we remember how you treat that.
aurel1 [1046304]Perhaps I missed something, but it was actually said that fixes will come up in near time (and I am actually talking about this as a staff member and server-side dev, right? So I not sure, why you are talking about leaving you in unknown?). Also, if we talk about "optimum" release we should ask if previous Torn version was so good that we don't need to change anything? If you work in this area you may know, how difficuilt is to rebuild something almost from stratch (and in case of old engine the rebuild was very huge). Some current client problems are more the like/dislike question, of course, there are still many bugs, but this will be fixed in near time.
Yes, it was stated that fixes are coming, but specific issues have not been addressed well enough. We don't yet fully understand what will be fixed, what is being looked at for a fix/change, and what is intentionally going to be left alone. Some changes, specifically the faction bank information, were intentional changes. Lots of folks would like to know exactly what the thought process was on that specific change, why nobody was notified that this change would be made, and if its going to be changed back. The reason that specific issue is so huge is because faction leaders basically have to freeze the assets of hundreds of players until something is said about what the future holds.
Other changes come to mind such as the server queries per minute block, and these things not being discussed at all is what is causing the discontent. A paragraph or two addressing the specific things being worked on, whatever can actually be talked about, would go a long way towards pleasing the masses.
Mentions: aurel1 [1046304]
Subscription cancelled, at least until this is all sorted out.
Hot_N_Steamy [243063]Subscription cancelled, at least until this is all sorted out.
I would give you a thumbs up, but that doesn't work whilst travelling. ;)
Mentions: Hot_N_Steamy [243063]
I think you're only reading what you want to Daphne, you seem to have missed a few posts in here.
I say nothing is perfect but this RESPO thing seemed too rushed and it loads slower on my mobile. I wish they will fix it ASAP.
daphne [14757]aurel1 [1046304]daphne [14757]Fighting with the customer - genius!
Ugh.
It's not fight, just a conversation. I don't think that will be better to say: "hey, it's all ok, I will simply ignore you"[:smiley:]
I think I'm transferring onto you a general feeling of "what problems, we don't have problems, stop complaining" that I'm getting from torn management.
Sometimes the customer just wants to be heard, and turning off things like bugs and issues and a general sense of we don't care, you guys just have to wait, doesn't allow for that.
You know, some things are real easy to fix, like, thank you for your patience, we understand that the current trial is hard, and would like to offer you a dp for the next month to make up for the frustration. Or something that makes it seem like you actually value your customers.
I'm not fishing for a dp, it could be a couple bottles of beer for all i care, or just proper announcements/communication and adressing of issues even, a simple interest in your customer base, people who used to be your fans and suddenly aren't. It's the attitude that's the issue.
We have no choice but to be patient. Many of us lost a game we loved and have been loyal to and contributed towards for many years, and your come back is "wait". Wait for what? We waited for respo and it was a slap in the face for some of us. And we'll wait for your changes and updates and fixes, but it won't leave us feeling any better towards you. It's not gonna suddenly lift the disappointment of how you treat your customers just because we can now end wars and log in normally. You're killing something that goes way beyond your bug fixes. This is a community, we're people, we remember how you treat that.
First week after such big release ispredictably difficult - I think it should be only better from now. Some things are the part of the new design, it can take some time to fully understand what's wrong and fix or change them according to your feedback. "Bugs and issues" was turned off not forever, it will come back soon.
Porny [604593]I think you're only reading what you want to Daphne, you seem to have missed a few posts in here.
Me and everyone else is it? That must be it, I'm not reading right. That's ok. You don't have to take any of the complaints seriously. No problem for me. Less money for ched.
This game is truly brilliant. That's why it's so disappointing.
Mentions: Porny [604593]
aurel1 [1046304]daphne [14757]aurel1 [1046304]daphne [14757]Fighting with the customer - genius!
Ugh.
It's not fight, just a conversation. I don't think that will be better to say: "hey, it's all ok, I will simply ignore you"[:smiley:]
I think I'm transferring onto you a general feeling of "what problems, we don't have problems, stop complaining" that I'm getting from torn management.
Sometimes the customer just wants to be heard, and turning off things like bugs and issues and a general sense of we don't care, you guys just have to wait, doesn't allow for that.
You know, some things are real easy to fix, like, thank you for your patience, we understand that the current trial is hard, and would like to offer you a dp for the next month to make up for the frustration. Or something that makes it seem like you actually value your customers.
I'm not fishing for a dp, it could be a couple bottles of beer for all i care, or just proper announcements/communication and adressing of issues even, a simple interest in your customer base, people who used to be your fans and suddenly aren't. It's the attitude that's the issue.
We have no choice but to be patient. Many of us lost a game we loved and have been loyal to and contributed towards for many years, and your come back is "wait". Wait for what? We waited for respo and it was a slap in the face for some of us. And we'll wait for your changes and updates and fixes, but it won't leave us feeling any better towards you. It's not gonna suddenly lift the disappointment of how you treat your customers just because we can now end wars and log in normally. You're killing something that goes way beyond your bug fixes. This is a community, we're people, we remember how you treat that.
First week after such big release ispredictably difficult - I think it should be only better from now. Some things are the part of the new design, it can take some time to fully understand what's wrong and fix or change them according to your feedback. "Bugs and issues" was turned off not forever, it will come back soon.
To quote another lovely genius, you're only reading the parts you want to read in this.