Respo ? Rushed

aurel1 [1046304]

daphne [14757]

To quote another lovely genius, you're only reading the parts you want to read in this.

I believe we just need aconstructive dialogue. If this was a "slap in the face", we need to locate the problems and try to fix it or change somehow - this is the only way. But justblaming of inaction will not help in this - we all trying to make it better.

Maybe my sarcasm is out of line. I believe I did share what would make this better, and I see you taking steps towards that. That helps me but there are many others who won't see this thread, and by the numbers, many who haven't been back since the launch. I understand technical issues, I understand soft launches, I understand problems, I don't understand the total lack of addressing specific issues and just expecting us to wait. This game is unique and can get away with a lot. Not many others could do that.

And also in regards to my sarcasm towards, that might also have been out of line, Porny, maybe you could tell me what I missed or didn't read, if you feel there was something that that would help me understand the lack of communication, customer care and genuine interest in our community and how we add to this game? I'm open to hearing you.

daphne [14757]

aurel1 [1046304]

daphne [14757]

To quote another lovely genius, you're only reading the parts you want to read in this.

I believe we just need aconstructive dialogue. If this was a "slap in the face", we need to locate the problems and try to fix it or change somehow - this is the only way. But justblaming of inaction will not help in this - we all trying to make it better.

Maybe my sarcasm is out of line. I believe I did share what would make this better, and I see you taking steps towards that. That helps me but there are many others who won't see this thread, and by the numbers, many who haven't been back since the launch. I understand technical issues, I understand soft launches, I understand problems, I don't understand the total lack of addressing specific issues and just expecting us to wait. This game is unique and can get away with a lot. Not many others could do that.

And also in regards to my sarcasm towards, that might also have been out of line, Porny, maybe you could tell me what I missed or didn't read, if you feel there was something that that would help me understand the lack of communication, customer care and genuine interest in our community and how we add to this game? I'm open to hearing you.

You posted after Auriel had already said he'd heard about a suggestion sticky and liked the idea, where staff and players could discuss these things. Its not often a dev is seen on the forums. This is the perfect opportunity to approach them with certain things. and learn they are are working round the clock to fix them. Not many sites could actually say that.

The points that are being put up by players and staff are pretty cool
Good to see staff getting involved with the community

I'm just going off what the top of the site says: "Please excuse any problems over the next week or two, we're on it!..." What people seem to forget is that with such a large update such as RESPO, there are going to be some bugs and obvious errors. People seem to expect things to be fixed right away and up to their standards, it's not the end of the world to wait a couple weeks like that statement says. Let them do their jobs because I'm sure they hear the same thing over and over again on what's jacked up.

matt [1844417]I'm just going off what the top of the site says: "Please excuse any problems over the next week or two, we're on it!..." What people seem to forget is that with such a large update such as RESPO, there are going to be some bugs and obvious errors. People seem to expect things to be fixed right away and up to their standards, it's not the end of the world to wait a couple weeks like that statement says. Let them do their jobs because I'm sure they hear the same thing over and over again on what's jacked up.

This.

I would be really interested to see the feedback that was given by all the players that were supposedly testing this thing.

All the glitches and stuff of that nature I am fine with as it is to be expected. But I find it amazing that the testers thought things like faction banks and warbases were good ideas.My faith in the ability of testers to make a meaningful evaluation of the viability of future updates issadly lacking.

But things are as they are and I am resigned to making the most of what is on offer. I have yet to play on a PC so maybe the game will be a little easier to navigate around when I do. Unfortunately I very rarely have the opportunity to play from PC as I am sure is the case for many others.

I hope to look back at this post in a few months with a different perspective and being excited and amazed at how it all turns out.

APOLLO [862724]I would be really interested to see the feedback that was given by all the players that were supposedly testing this thing.

All the glitches and stuff of that nature I am fine with as it is to be expected. But I find it amazing that the testers thought things like faction banks and warbases were good ideas.My faith in the ability of testers to make a meaningful evaluation of the viability of future updates issadly lacking.

But things are as they are and I am resigned to making the most of what is on offer. I have yet to play on a PC so maybe the game will be a little easier to navigate around when I do. Unfortunately I very rarely have the opportunity to play from PC as I am sure is the case for many others.

I hope to look back at this post in a few months with a different perspective and being excited and amazed at how it all turns out.

As with all big changes, not everyone is going to like it, including testers. But it was going to happen regardless, the testers job was just to iron out as many bugs as we could find, to which we did. Patience is the key here, 99% of you will adapt to the changes.

Porny [604593]

APOLLO [862724]I would be really interested to see the feedback that was given by all the players that were supposedly testing this thing.

All the glitches and stuff of that nature I am fine with as it is to be expected. But I find it amazing that the testers thought things like faction banks and warbases were good ideas.My faith in the ability of testers to make a meaningful evaluation of the viability of future updates issadly lacking.

But things are as they are and I am resigned to making the most of what is on offer. I have yet to play on a PC so maybe the game will be a little easier to navigate around when I do. Unfortunately I very rarely have the opportunity to play from PC as I am sure is the case for many others.

I hope to look back at this post in a few months with a different perspective and being excited and amazed at how it all turns out.

As with all big changes, not everyone is going to like it, including testers. But it was going to happen regardless, the testers job was just to iron out as many bugs as we could find, to which we did. Patience is the key here, 99% of you will adapt to the changes.

Agree with you Apollo, definately some things that came with RESPO should have been evaluated better by the testers, the bugs arent a problem, aside from chat going down I havent had any major issues.

Porny [604593]

daphne [14757]

aurel1 [1046304]

daphne [14757]

To quote another lovely genius, you're only reading the parts you want to read in this.

I believe we just need aconstructive dialogue. If this was a "slap in the face", we need to locate the problems and try to fix it or change somehow - this is the only way. But justblaming of inaction will not help in this - we all trying to make it better.

Maybe my sarcasm is out of line. I believe I did share what would make this better, and I see you taking steps towards that. That helps me but there are many others who won't see this thread, and by the numbers, many who haven't been back since the launch. I understand technical issues, I understand soft launches, I understand problems, I don't understand the total lack of addressing specific issues and just expecting us to wait. This game is unique and can get away with a lot. Not many others could do that.

And also in regards to my sarcasm towards, that might also have been out of line, Porny, maybe you could tell me what I missed or didn't read, if you feel there was something that that would help me understand the lack of communication, customer care and genuine interest in our community and how we add to this game? I'm open to hearing you.

You posted after Auriel had already said he'd heard about a suggestion sticky and liked the idea, where staff and players could discuss these things. Its not often a dev is seen on the forums. This is the perfect opportunity to approach them with certain things. and learn they are are working round the clock to fix them. Not many sites could actually say that.

Well what you're not seeing is the perfect opportunity to you to receive genuine feedback, the opportunity to retain donators and subscribers, the opportunity to turn a non subscriber, non donator around and to be given t he opportunity to provide genuine customer service. If Ched wants to take this game to a higher level, you can't only invest in the development.

I do appreciate Aurel1 taking the time to address players and the issues brought up. And I do agree such a forum would be very helpful and communicate the right things to players.

You know love, it's not those who complain that you should be worrying about, you still have an opportunity with them. You call yourself a Helper, but i'm not sure who you're helping.

You didn't see this I assume, or chose to ignore it, but I have absolutely zero problems with things taking time, zero problems with bugs and glitches after it is obvious a whole lot was put into this, and I see respo as an opportunity for the growth of torn. The attitude, the lack of communication, the standard responses.

You took away bugs and glitches, but it didn't really do anything but cause the forums to be inundated with the same posts over and over. It didn't reduce your workload one bit as far as i'm aware.

At the end of the day, it could simply be an "interface", a superficial solution where people can post the frustrations (as you repeatedly say are expected) in regards to the BUGS and issues they are finding sucking the joy out of this game, and have the occassionally "confirmed", "fixed", "saved for later". Is that so bloody hard for you to let people know what exactly they are waiting for?

For many this game is an addiction. Hours and hours and hours spent on it. Some have spent money on it. The only reason anyone is complaining is because they still care. Not because you did a bad job, not because respo sucks, but because they care about this game, and what it means to them, and they're frustrated. And you've stated over and over again that you're putting everything you got into the fixing of bugs and the development, but you've forgotten who you're even building all that for, and forgotten the human side of this game, and that isn't really being fixed, apart from people like Aurel1 who I bet wasn't asked to come on the forums, I bet he decided to take out from his own time and have a word with the players, because he recognised something else that was needed that wasn't in the coding.

bump

it took 2+ years to develop, what is rushed about that??? maybe they should have taken 3 or 4 years like Chess :-P

Porny [604593]

As with all big changes, not everyone is going to like it, including testers. But it was going to happen regardless, the testers job was just to iron out as many bugs as we could find, to which we did. Patience is the key here, 99% of you will adapt to the changes.

Ched better hope the number is 99%, but I really don't think it will

FYI - there should not be any "obvious errors", those things should have been caught during development and beta-test and fixed prior to release.

One thing that WOULD have been helpful was a list of known issues with RESPO such that people did not have to point out stuff that was already known. Would also be nice to have a complete list of bugs, along with showing what is actively being worked on and what has been addressed.

WaterFreak [62794]

Porny [604593]

Ched better hope the number is 99%, but I really don't think it will

FYI - there should not be any "obvious errors", those things should have been caught during development and beta-test and fixed prior to release.

One thing that WOULD have been helpful was a list of known issues with RESPO such that people did not have to point out stuff that was already known. Would also be nice to have a complete list of bugs, along with showing what is actively being worked on and what has been addressed.

Well there is this spreedsheet...RESPO Progress

To Porny and Aurel:
I appreciate you both being here and try to answer the flack that is coming your way.

However I must say, that you are misunderstanding the issues at large.
The issue isn't the minor bugs here and there, we all are perfectly aware of the yellow text in the top,
we are all perfectly aware that is is mayor change on top of a poorly developed (albeit great gameplay) game.

- The problem isn't that the statistics worked one day, and the next day they stopped
- The problems are not because of bugs such as the medals all showing "Level 1" on the awards/medals sub-screens (I don't think this have been reported in the forums yet)

Your customers have shown for years that these sort of bugs we can live with for a very long time,
because frankly that's what we are used to here. We nag about the small bugs, but we don't leave because of small bugs.

What we moan about, what makes us mad, and angry at Chedburn and the rest of Torn Team is how distribution of information, or rather lack of information is handled.
One of the largest outcries is due to the sudden change of Faction Banking, most of us are perfectly aware of the reason for removing the faction banking, but the change came so suddenly WITHOUT any forewarning.
Even highly respected staff members and Respo testers were not aware of this change.

Everytime we hear something from any staff members, answer is always the same: "I/We already suggested this".

This is the damn point, Chedburn and the developers are completely deaf ears to anything staff and customers voices.
This is THE PROBLEM!

"Look at me, I can do whatever I want, I create the exact opposite of what my customers want/expect".

I guess Online Members in the past 24 hours tells a good story. It's been declining the past 12 months, and in this week it has declined tremendously.

I guess you'll be able to feel it the coming months, when monthly subscriptions and donators begin to dwindle. That is the time when you'll really feel how little you listen to your customers.

We want some information on the pressuring issues, what is the stance of Chedburn and his team of developers!?

- What Will happen to faction banking, will Chedburn make sure that the 100's of faction owners that is at the top of the food-chain in his paycheck gets what they deserve. Closure, and help to sort out this mess that was created by the sudden removal of faction bank.

- Will the future include wider design to account for the larger screens.

- Any change there will be changes to the warbase, as the current warbase has gotten a lot of flack.

Other high ranked issues can be found scattered around the forums.



We want closure, we want information!
If you don't want to give us that, I think the people will vote with their wallet.


Customer service, customer service, customer service, and yet again customer service!
We pay your bills!


Edit:
And 3 minutes after this post, Clansy made a thread about the faction banking. Timing.....

"I try not to voice my opinions very loudly here in public forum" - Cyberdude, 2014.

CatHead [1581564]"I try not to voice my opinions very loudly here in public forum" - Cyberdude, 2014.

Haha, I hadn't until I felt I had to respond in this thread, until then I had mainly voiced my opinions in Faction chat, and IRC ;)
Also notice the first 4 words, I think you can read them self, and without further explanation, the entire sentence still stands.

"I try not to"
"I try not to"
"I try not to"


But seeing a game I've spent waaaay to long on declining so rapidly and staff's failure to see the actual problems really ticks me off.

Don't get me wrong. I love Respo, probably more than many others here, but I'm against the handling of information (lack of), the handling of the situation.
Respo incorporates many additions that I had implemented in my script (And even stuff that I had implemented in my upcoming script), therefor I can only hope for the best for Respo!

Ched has spoken on the matter of the compact layout, but try as I might, I cannot find the thread in question. Perhaps that's part of the problem-- what information is being offered, may not have been found by the majority of the player base.

The problem is that most communication about bugs hasn't been calm and level-headed. Rather, the forums are littered with simple whining. So-and-so is quitting, z0mG this sucks, bring old Torn back, etc. imo, rational complaints are in the minority, which explains the hush-hush nature of staff at the moment.

It's hard to see how routine communication about many of these bugs would do much besides bog devs down, but there are a few major issues (chiefly faction banks) that are severe enough to require a clear response. There is a time for talking about the new warbase design, but is right in the middle of bug and exploit testing the right time for that conversation?

Edit: As I was posting this, Clansy made her thread about the faction bank holdover. I'll continue to look for the thread regarding the layout. But gotta give hats off to her for that.

What are the guys at Torn playing at?

I work as a full stack developer and part of my job is to implement systems whereby continuous integration is seamless. What the guys at Torn have done with "RESPO" I would consider extremely unprofessional.

I hate to throw buzzwords around but best practices that were adopted many years ago (yes I'm talking about agile) seem to have been completely lost on the guys from Torn. If a member of my team were to push a feature form a development environment without thorough testing I would be livid. It wouldn't just be me either.
Imagine giving your clients (you guys, the players) a product littered with bugs. It would be extremely embarrassing and one would expect your clients to go elsewhere.

I could go on all day about the failings with "RESPO" but I think that my keyboard bashing would be wasted on the vast majority of you guys in the forums (coming from a technical point of view) so to Chedburn and the other developers at Torn I say this.

It's clear that you guys are trying to make both the architecture and design of Torn a little more modern and get it up to modern standards. I would seriously recommend seeking professional development advice as in my opinion the "RESPO" update has been a technical failure.

Fitchett [1618547]What are the guys at Torn playing at?

I work as a full stack developer and part of my job is to implement systems whereby continuous integration is seamless. What the guys at Torn have done with "RESPO" I would consider extremely unprofessional.

I hate to throw buzzwords around but best practices that were adopted many years ago (yes I'm talking about agile) seem to have been completely lost on the guys from Torn. If a member of my team were to push a feature form a development environment without thorough testing I would be livid. It wouldn't just be me either.
Imagine giving your clients (you guys, the players) a product littered with bugs. It would be extremely embarrassing and one would expect your clients to go elsewhere.

I could go on all day about the failings with "RESPO" but I think that my keyboard bashing would be wasted on the vast majority of you guys in the forums (coming from a technical point of view) so to Chedburn and the other developers at Torn I say this.

It's clear that you guys are trying to make both the architecture and design of Torn a little more modern and get it up to modern standards. I would seriously recommend seeking professional development advice as in my opinion the "RESPO" update has been a technical failure.

Can't argue with that.

Were you around during the launch? At times I wondered if they were migrating files and bug fixing via ssh. :P

Edit: This was harsh. I should mention, apart from the increased data usage, I'm loving respo.