Starcraft 2

Anyone else play Starcraft 2 - HOTS?

I play on NA as both random and Protoss. My z/t is plat level, protoss high diamond/low masters. Only 1v1 but might play 2s.

Looking forward to LOTV, hopefully revives the game again! It's a shame that games with a low skill curve like dota2/lol took so many players away from starcraft.

As far as an e sport goes watching SC2 can be fun but if you watch too much (or play) you'll realize how 1 dimensional it is. I think that's the problem. Due to that a lot of it is about reaction time and apm, the game needs a way to expand on a strategic level and I think that's why it's not very popular rather than blaming league or dota.

How do you mean, one dimensional? That doesn't make sense. I assume it's because you aren't good enough to experiment with build variety and just do one base allins. There's so many different unit compositions and harass opportunities.

The game takes an incredible amount more strategy and skill than dota/lol. Anyone can tune into a dota/lol stream and copy a pro's build and use their cookie cutter setup to great success. A vast majority of people cannot watch a pro SC2 player's stream and replicate. There's hardly any micro management involved at all in dota/lol. Elementary school kids can hold their weight in it, says a lot about the game.

The complexity of SC2 doesn't even compare to dota/lol. It's a far more difficult game to play. That's why people choose dota/lol over SC2. A ton of SC2 players left for it because they got too frustrated over how mentally exhausting SC2 can be.

Yea the majority of dotards just watch streams, but that's why the majority of the playerbase is in the 2k MMR tier. You can't achieve any success whatsoever by "copying builds" and "watching streams". You do that when you're a retard and want to remain at that level. The reason people can't watch an SC stream is because those f**kers move their mouse like they've got Alzheimer's.

SC and DotA-clones are completely different games, and i don't know why you're comparing them. One is a base building RTS, the other is a base-defending PVP.

Now for me, there's nothing wrong with SC, but like Beerstein said, it looks way too reaction-y. It's like the game was made to give Razr and all the shitty peripheral makers plenty of cash.
I prefer slow RTS, where it's not about grouping units up and right clicking shit to death. Men of War, for example.

I see no difference between the two tbh (and play both) both have the same basic concept of building and countering your opponents, the only difference in "skill" you mentioned really is as LSD calls it "those f**kers move their mouse like they've got Alzheimer's."

Much like LoL and Dota there is a limited amount of options/counters to each other, the big difference is your ability to pull a "those f**kers move their mouse like they've got Alzheimer's."

Strategy and skill are not the same thing as twitchy hands. Knowledge wise I'd go so far as to say SC II requires less than DOTA/League due to champions.

End of the day the games aren't at all the same and shouldn't be compared, I'm just saying why I think SC is so weak in E-sports at the moment, and it is that lack of diversity in strategy and play. The strategies employed especially at top tier play tend to be extremely limited and repetitive, more so than even league or dota. It's a game more dominated by ones twitchy fingers than it is by next level strategic play. The game itself is very limited in scope right now and that's why it's not popular for spectators. As per Blizzards model they try to keep things as simple as possible, and as a result when talking grand strategy it simply doesn't exist in SC II.

As someone that competes in gaming tournaments, watches them, has played SC, LoL, and DotA I just can't get behind SC as a spectator sport, and I can't see that ever changing without drastic changes to their model, likely just a new game entirely. Also on the SC Pro scene 1v1 is very big, on the spectator scene they've been demanding larger matches for a long time because they want to see more diverse and intricate strategic play.

Now you can wish in 1 hand and crap in the other but it's going to take more than LOTV to give SC II a new life in E sports, be it SC III or a simple willingness to move further away from 1v1s.


"I assume it's because you aren't good enough to experiment with build variety and just do one base allins."

Even if that were true (it isn't) then it in itself would be admitting that the game isn't a good spectator sport. One thing I think we can all agree on is that SC as a whole just isn't cutting it for the E-sports crowd. Anyways it's within your own game so I'm assuming you've seen the viewers constant requests for more than just 1v1s. Personally I think the SC pros are just afraid they wont be able to handle the strategy involved in organized team play.

I play, but I'm awful at it.

I'm making the comparison because SC2's community was lost to simpleton games like dota2/lol that cater to the casual gamer. The SC2 community was lost because it's difficult for newbie casual gamers to adjust and learn due to it's high skill curve, unlike dota. Casual gamers can't handle the multi tasking requirement. They can't handle the ladder anxiety. They can't handle playing 1 on 1 because it's too stressful for them.

By "twitchy hands" I assume you mean 250+ APM. It means their brains are working way faster than dota2/lol players. The faster your mind is working, the faster and more efficient you can multi task and micro manage. The average dota/lol gamer probably floats 30-60 apm because the game doesn't require multi tasking and little to no micro management. Basic kiting and teamwork is all that's needed there.

Beerstein you're wrong on so many levels it's not worth much of my time refuting. Everyone 1v1s because 2s and higher always result in 1 base allins, when you complain about lack of complexity. I would imagine all you do is play 2v2s 3v3s and use the same one base allin builds and get bored quickly. Clearly you don't follow SC2 as there's tons of openings for each race, even for the top koreans. Did you even check out the updates for LOTV? Do you always speak on every subject in torn's forums like you know everything about everything?

I realise you need something in your life to be proud of, but seriously now: StarCraft isn't it. Now calm your tits.

^^^ Also lol@ all the accusations, being super defensive etc. when you have 0 info on my SC background. Only one reason to get so defensive. Also I'm sorry.

Missed the humor on your pride comment LSD, as no one is proud of spending their recreational time playing video games. It's about competitive challenge for me. I played a variety of sports most of my life til recent, now starcraft is my competitive outlet. Being able to outsmart and outplay my opponent on as many levels as possible is the reason I prefer playing SC2 over other easy/mindless games.

It's really obvious you're inexperienced on SC2 after the essay you wrote Beerstein. I'll give you a billion torn cash if you think you can beat me 2 out of 3 games. I'll even use only one hand.

That's not fair. By the sound of things, you're used to playing with one hand.

1b is nothing to me in Torn, make it 10 billion. The way you're talking this should be a walk in the park right?

Oh and no toss, they're easy mode noob race, any idiot can diamond toss. let's see your actual skill level.

1b no more no less. If it's for money I'll be playing my main. Protoss has the worst win rates right now. You haven't even stated your race or league.

Fine, but you said 1 handed so since you insist on toss I'll insist on you using that 1 hand you so kindly offered. (not like you need 2 to play toss anyways), and here I was going to let you use both hands to showcase your "mad skillz." Sadly toss and skills don't belong in the same sentence. T/Z mains can 1 hand toss anyways.

Race and league?

Protoss takes just as much skill to play at a high level than any other race. People with your attitude are just sore from protoss cheese.

Gotta reinstall the game, also I have no issues with toss cheese I just think they require even less skill than the other two races (and happen to be right). I think your willingness to play toss with 1 hand over t or z with 2 hands speaks for itself ;)



Also not sure why my "race and rank" matter, I'm just a scrub remember, what would I know? ;)

I like how you reiterate your own opinion without giving a single supporting statement on a game you don't have installed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it's just yours sucks.

Based on your essays and know-it-all attitude it's easy to tell you aren't that great. With that being said, it's almost impossible to win one handed unless you're silver or worse. Wouldn't surprise me if you were, but chances are you're gold, maybe plat. Whenever someone rages at me in game while losing, I often say that I'm surprised I'm winning because I've only been playing with one hand (never actually tried). Why are you afraid to state your race and league, yet are firm in your opinion about the game and my race? If you're as bad as you make yourself sound, I'd consider giving you a handicap such as only 1 or 2 control groups, or delayed mining time.

I was gold in WOL Beta when plat was highest tier, probably copper at best now.

Prefer the arcade/customs anyways. /me is scrubby scrub mcscruberson

Know of any good arcade games? Haven't tried them since wol.

depends what type youre into?

pvp - star battle
tug of war - desert strike (laggy as f**k) or nexus wars
tower defense - gem tower defense or squadron tower defense (more pvp)