MS-13

https://www.propublica.org/article/ms-13-immigration-facts-what-trump-administration-gets-wrong

Remember, when someone brings up MS13 they are trying to manipulate you and make you afraid. MS13 is a boogyman that has been extremely exaggerated.

holy ****, you have lost your mind.

if you cant see how slanted that article is there is seriously no helping you.

its as much of an embellishment as anything Trump has said.

did you seriously just try to downplay the danger and impact of MS13 just to take a shot at Trump?

my god.  lol.

i wont be replying to this thread anymore, its clearly a waste of time.

Yes an article in a well respected, highly awarded investigative journalism center with little to no bias is clearly evidence that I have lost my mind... it couldnt possibly be that the anti immigrant groups are lying to you or exaggerating the truth. Donald Trump is known for his honesty, hell, he tells the truth almost 4% of the time!

"ProPublica Illinois is an independent, nonprofit newsroom that produces investigative journalism with moral force. Headquartered in Chicago, we are the first regional publishing operation of ProPublica, dedicated to stories about big issues that affect people living and working in the state of Illinois."

~~~~

Well respected, heh. Little to no bias, hehe.

The fact alone that it came out of Crapanois, Crapacago no less means it's probably full of crap.

they are getting more and more insane... 

this whole topic is just party bullshit

i doubt ms13 is as big a problem as they making it out to be, and on the other side its more of a problem then they making it out to be. just a bunch a bullshit either way. nothing new.

i blame the media. i don't trust the articles, or tv news. its mind control.

This article is just sad, misleading, and in some parts just down right wrong. I can tell you from first hand experience that MS13 is bad and one of the most brutal gangs in the US. 

Most of that article is wrong and makes me question who her “expert” is that she has consulted. 

i dont doubt it. its probably one of the most organized gangs out here. but they just trying to get us to argue about it while they dont do shit about it.

elections not to far away.

here is the reality, and im only pointing this out for those who don't really know and come here for information.  

1.  MS13 is a problem, a major one.  has been a problem for years and long before trump was elected, a major one.  will be a problem long after he is gone, a major one.  these are undeniable facts very well documented within the law enforcement community and any public reports they have submitted on the subject.

2.  MS13 profits from many things, including but not limited to human trafficking.  the kind that not only includes sex trafficking but also illegal insertion of immigrants into the US.  this undeniable truth is also clearly documented within the law enforcement community and any public reports they have submitted on the subject.

3.  a baby-faced 19-year-old who blushed when girls waved to him from the gallery is clearly an attempt to slant an opinion in the favor of a political side.  this description holds no value when discussing a gang leader of any kind let alone a leader of MS13 who's crimes and horrors are clearly documented across many states and can only be included to make people like you FEEL bad for a murderer either through the direct act or conspiracy.

4.  Trump didn't invent the stigma that surrounds MS13.  That stigma has followed them and they wear it like a badge of honor just like any gang especially ones prominent is prisons.  Its their street cred, earned through many acts and violent encounters.  do not even try and diminish this reality.

According to you its also not possible to buy alcohol or cigarettes from a store with food stamps or its equivalent.  This is proven wrong every day to such a degree there is now radio commercials outlining the legality of doing so because the problem is so rampant.  There are a great many things that defy your claims on many topics and the validity of the sources you provide including your brethren in science.  

Do us all a favor and open your eyes.  This time you have gone too far.

if there non profit who are there donators thats there bias i could create a neo nazi news paper team and hire journalists under a non profit organization doesn't mean they wont be bias thats like saying the george soros foundation doesnt have a globalist agenda

1. wow, not much information or sources provided here, just your subjective overview of an issue. Mind dropping some sources? Article presented is actually very well sourced, albeit a bit narrow in its focus. Author has written multiple articles on it.

2."Of the approximately 5,000 individuals apprehended by USBP with confirmed or suspected gang affiliations since FY 2012, 159 were UACs (unaccompanied alien children). Of those 159, approximately 56 UACs were suspected or confirmed to be affiliated with MS-13" (link) Yes very well documentation on MS-13 insertion into the US. Would say there are bigger players in this area, likely based out of Mexico or Columbia and not a US/El Salvador gang. Since 2012 a little over 200 homicides were attributed to MS-13 of the 76,000 that occurred in the US during that time (effectively 0.002% of homicides).

3.Description of an event where the author encounters an accused mass-murderer in court and her shock at learning how young and baby-faced he appears doesn't slant opinions, it indicates  that MS-13 is generally comprised of young impressionable latino men from immigrant backgrounds/UAC backgrounds, which it is. The rest of your point is irrelevant because you're making suggestions about this specific individual's criminal behaviour without providing any context or reference point and attempting to draw a line between his criminal behaviour in Long Island to MS-13's wider criminal activities.

4.When speaking about Trump inventing stigmas, he has certainly done a pretty good job of misrepresenting the group's activities (along with mostly everyone who's ever opposed his views). While I agree with you that gangs of all stripes will utilize negative coverage to enhance their criminal personas, Trump certainly hasn't been accurate in describing the group's activities, and has been manipulating the general public's understanding of the issue to suit his political agenda by blowing up the threat of MS-13. It's a useful trope for him to utilize because there have been high profile murders attributed to this group and fear and hysteria are good ways to get people over to your side, whereas other high profile murders associated with other gangs have simply not been publicized and everything on the DHS, CBP and ICE websites indicate that MS-13 is the only gang they're looking at. Trump said:""They killed a cop for the sake of making a statement. They wanted to make a statement, so they killed a cop."  Whereas a bit of sleuthing indicates that members of local police force where this alleged act occurred stated: "MS-13 threatened to kill a cop, but it has not happened." Which is a whole different kind of reality, no?

   

Remember that when you see those bodies without heads laying in the road it probably wasn't MS 13, according to some liberal rag that wants you to believe that only good people cross the borders illegally.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/anne-arundel/bs-md-ar-ms-13-indict-20180330-story.html

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/maryland/facts-about-ms-13-in-maryland-virginia/65-436466709

https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2018/02/police-detail-severe-beating-teen-girl-ms-13/

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Alleged-MS-13-member-in-Maryland-accused-of-12756948.php

Is Trump overstating the problem? Yes, of course he is, because he is Trump, Capt. Superlative, and he overstates everything. Does that mean that MS 13 is not a problem? No. The article even says pretty much the same thing, and it's only purpose is to redirect anger towards Trump, and appeal to those inclined to look the other way when in it comes to ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSERS BREAKING THE LAW.

Boogymen indeed.

"From March 26 to May 6, 2017, ICE and our law enforcement partners executed the most recent SURGE operation, Project New Dawn, which resulted in 1,378 arrests. Of those 1,378 arrests, 1,098 were criminal arrests and the remaining 280 were administrative immigration arrests. As a result of this effort, 238 firearms, close to $500,000 in currency, and more than 271 kilograms of illicit narcotics were seized. This surge was designed to identify and investigate the membership of and criminal activities committed by transnational criminal street gangs throughout the United States. Most of the individuals arrested during Project New Dawn were U.S. citizens, but 445 foreign nationals from 21 countries in Central America, Asia, Europe and the Caribbean were also arrested. Of the 1,378 individuals arrested, 1,095 were gang members or gang associates (762 gang members and 333 associates of gang members). 903 were charged with criminal offenses and 192 were arrested administratively for immigration violations. The remaining 283 individuals arrested claimed no gang involvement. The majority of arrestees were affiliated with MS-13 (104), Sureños (118), Bloods (137), and Crips (104). Enforcement actions occurred around the country, with the greatest activity taking place in the Houston, Newark, Atlanta, and New York areas."

Curious to know which gangs the other 632 were a part of but the government publications aren't all that clear on it since most of the publications seem to be about MS-13.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/06/21/written-testimony-ice-senate-committee-judiciary-hearing-titled-ms-13-problem

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/file/958481/download&ved=2ahUKEwid5r-RsfHbAhVDYKwKHaLaBs8QFjALegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0tXexrxwg-FRyHJO41zFfK



That is a link to a PDF from the MOST reputable source on the subject... the justice department.



According to them, MS13 has been active for almost 40 years, has around 30k members worldwide (10k of whom are in the US), is one of the largest gangs in America (although due to law enforcement has been diminishing), and that jailed MS13 leaders in el Salvador regularly send emissaries to the US to "reconstitute" the gangs, to make sure they are are falling in line and following orders.

And of course, you guys could always watch this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DocBLgAaud_4&ved=0ahUKEwiMmOatsvHbAhUEXawKHRJ3DoYQwqsBCCwwAQ&usg=AOvVaw2oaF67O1zA2G7wk3nw6r4C

^^^ the episode of gangland all about MS13, why they are here, how they make money and take power, and why they are one of the most violent, gangs in the US.

And, just so we all know, I linked to a video that was posted in 2016, but the actual episode that aired on TV was from 2012 (from what I've found) which shows that they were a major problem even before Trump. Prior administrations simply downplayed the threat for political gain, while Trump is overlaying it. Doesn't mean it's not a problem, it's just a problem that you never really heard of until Trump made it so.

That's all id like to add to the convo... a link to the justice department info, and a link to the biographic on MS-13 done by gangland. One source gives info straight from government sources, the other gives info compiled from various sources, including MS13 members themselves who explain the sheer brutality of the gang. Im not adding my opinions because there are no need... but the fact remains, MS13 isn't just some group to point fingers at for political gain, but one of the largest, and most violent gangs in our country, and has been for a long time now

Regardless of Trump's statement, the MS13 is a problem here in the US.  How would the MI6 handle it if the MS 13 was denied entrance here and they fled to the UK?

Its not that MS13 is NOT a problem, its that they arent a BIG problem. There are a thousand more important problems for the US, including many other gangs like the Gangster Diciples or Simon City Royals, but everyone here knows who MS13 is and seems to think it is an important problem. All the sad people on here telling me Im crazy for not being afraid of what basically amounts to a teenagers prison gang. Its pathetic to live your life in fear like that and wrong to make wide-reaching policy, that affects millions of people, to fix small problems that only affect a few thousand.

First off, **** a royal.

Nobody is advocating others to be afraid of them. Trump ain't going around telling Americans to lock their doors and gather their guns. There's many large gangs/criminal organizations in the US, and MS-13 is simply one of many. However, for their numbers, 13's do a lot of harm. Maybe in the US it's not as obvious, but further south they run a lot of shit. 13's are also in many prisons in the US, mainly Southern California where they've been the cause of numerous incidents inside.

you guys really expect they gonna save us from ms13? i think its all talk.

these politicians do a good job keeping america full of heroin, and cocaine. i refuse to believe that this constant supply of drugs for every city, and small town isn't government sanctioned.

Can we agree on this much...

Illegal border crossers should be stopped and rooted out because by definition they are criminals? That much?

Everything else is just window dressing.

I am of Italian decent. My people came here legally, but then some of them caused problems. We see it on TV and in movies all the time. Doesn't mean all Italians are bad people, and anybody with a brain knows that.

Not all immigrants are criminals, but the ones who start off as criminals are. Sorry. It is that simple for me.