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Should inactive subscribers exist ?

Started by Dragon [1486770] on in General Discussion.

118 replies · 2.95k views · thread synced · 8 days ago · View on torn.com

Posts archived: 119 / 119 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch

Michelle-420- [732810] · #81
I use to subscribe and switched bank accounts. It automatically stopped due to lack of payment. I never re-subscribed because of my own selfish reasons.
Beerstein [1322136] · #82
Ched's always been that way, maybe even a little too much so. Could push a little more profits, would be better for us all I think.
Lasky [1718783] · #83
Even if they can't log in, they can always stop the payment by contacting Paypal. If they don't then its on them for neglecting their finances.
Shooby [2510470] · #84 · edited
who cares? if they wanna pay for a game they don't play, they reserve the right to. If you don't check your bank statements and fail to cancel subscriptions yourself, oh well. I'll be surprised if the game lasts another decade + so ofc ched isnt going to cancel paying subscriptions just because you don't like seeing inactive players benefit from points giveaways or whatever (most common complaint I've seen).

Money is money. IRL economy is shit, and new players aren't gonna ever catch up to the people who've been actively playing for 5-10-15 years +. eventually the game is gonna crumble; make the most of capitalizing financially as you can till that becomes inevitable.
PeakaPeaka [2536518] · #85
I agree, it's not just about cancelling your subscription but having the financial understanding to sign up to one. It clearly states the different types of subscription and costs involved.

Why should Ched and team take responsibility for personal finance education as well?

If we are to truly review money and spending in games. I suppose in the grand scheme of things, an overpaid subscription is the lesser evil compared to a loot box and, etc.
Remilia [1284087] · #86
How do you stop future payments if you can't login to stop them? If you do a chargeback go through your bank to stop future payments don't you get put temporarily in federal jail until your account is paid up?
Ahab [1735214] · #87 · edited
Torn players don't know what ethical means

Today's winner in the subscriber draw for 10,000 points was last active 1,551 days ago.
If true this is not ethical at all and should be chased up
Fishbum [2009144] · #88
Ched is a business man first and foremost. He has provided a service exactly as agreed upon with no intention of defrauding anyone. That sounds pretty moral. All because you can find a single outlier example of a person you claim is physically incapable of cancelling their subscription does not mean he needs to invest time and effort into developing a solution. He has already acknowledged in such cases he works with people to return their money, but that's not sufficient? I'd say you're immoral for demanding a businessman to sink effort into something to appease an extremely small group of people all because you decided these people want that without actually talking to them. I guess these people are too stupid to know what's good for them so you're going to make their decisions for them. You sound like a tyrant.
Kibijosh [2173920] · #89
At first I thought no, but after thinking, I compared it to those people with Amazon Prime/Netflix/etc subscriptions. Amazon Prime $119 per year/ $12.99 a month. Netflix $9 and up a month. Torn $4.85 a month or $48.50 a year. (Yes, there is no discount like most places for buying a year at a time). Put that in perspective? Torn isn't a big issue.
Halex [2113885] · #90
Maybe an extended period of time can lead to ineligibility even though they’re of sub status. Being active should be rewarding as that’s the benefit of being a donor anyhow.
CRLF [2095076] · #91
I'm not reading 5 pages, but there are several ways around this (for yourself).

If you are an annual subscriber, you can pay for a year and immediately cancel the subscription for renewal (does not affect the current year).

In paypal, there's a page for subscriptions. There's also one in amazon.

If you are a monthly subscriber, your best bet it to use a credit card that expires in a year. Of course, if you only have one bank card, that is a problem. If you use a card that expires in a year, then once the expiration date is passed, it will not charge further unless you update the card. I've done this intentionally with some other services where I did not trust the vendor to cancel.

In general, there is no reason to cancel someone's subscription for them. The person could be in the hospital or on military leave. Perhaps he doesn't mind a $5 a month charge while he's away.

When someone dies, of course the banks cancel transactions. But otherwise, it is assumed that a person will cancel a renewing subscription if they no longer want it.
CRLF [2095076] · #92
I am probably going to regret posting this because I do not want to make waves...

There are also hundreds of users with "donator" status who have not logged on in years. But this is because status does NOT update until they logon again...

So these people are showing as subscribers. That does NOT mean they are all actually subscribers. If they cancelled payment and never logged on, then they will show as subscriber but are NOT.

So this is only a list of POSSIBLE subscribers who haven't logged on in more than 300 days.
NumIDplayernameagelast_actionrelativeSubscriber
1538036damien281134471/7/2012 8:11:17 PM3137 days agoSubscriber
1644947ScreamDream29711/9/2013 7:08:04 AM2770 days agoSubscriber
1506315DarthBadger35708/8/2014 7:49:52 AM2194 days agoSubscriber
1549349Angels_Die33978/31/2015 3:05:07 AM1806 days agoSubscriber
633018Stratus460510/5/2015 4:57:16 PM1770 days agoSubscriber
1544457Parker_Arrse34185/12/2016 4:47:05 PM1551 days agoSubscriber
219687delerium533112/5/2016 9:54:41 AM1343 days agoSubscriber
2039435Sollith13131/25/2017 5:00:14 AM1293 days agoSubscriber
1968255William_Torn17104/17/2017 9:16:00 PM1211 days agoSubscriber
1437604Reach37386/1/2017 6:19:58 AM1166 days agoSubscriber
234661Mickdakiwi53056/10/2017 3:09:59 AM1157 days agoSubscriber
2065356Natanlioni11756/10/2017 11:40:04 AM1157 days agoSubscriber
2066638Gangstaaaaa11676/15/2017 7:06:10 AM1152 days agoSubscriber
1952009PedanticSloth18168/10/2017 6:04:19 PM1096 days agoSubscriber
1837420JonWill91123318/31/2017 4:49:17 PM1075 days agoSubscriber
2079555Crystal_Fist10829/28/2017 9:49:06 PM1047 days agoSubscriber
2084275Keoua808104810/16/2017 10:23:28 AM1029 days agoSubscriber
2077627Pocco123109512/6/2017 3:56:26 PM978 days agoSubscriber
381533Gabrian49971/31/2018 6:39:05 PM921 days agoSubscriber
1849481EscapedGoblin22732/14/2018 4:18:44 PM908 days agoSubscriber
1891279Pyrol19952/20/2018 7:06:52 PM902 days agoSubscriber
2101511Lightstrike9153/29/2018 2:28:24 AM866 days agoSubscriber
189628Gloom53864/16/2018 4:39:09 PM846 days agoSubscriber
2113890Deezo8474/30/2018 8:27:05 AM833 days agoSubscriber
2042694Urstine12915/6/2018 4:55:14 PM827 days agoSubscriber
1976445hellel16565/11/2018 11:12:10 PM822 days agoSubscriber
897363aquitas44175/15/2018 4:05:43 PM817 days agoSubscriber
2000992RedCeles15165/27/2018 4:09:19 PM806 days agoSubscriber
2128585BearKing988126/27/2018 12:02:58 AM776 days agoSubscriber
240230Elgebelgen52958/2/2018 10:55:26 AM738 days agoSubscriber
1266868Phaera40778/2/2018 2:33:45 PM739 days agoSubscriber
2073340LizardOfDoom11238/7/2018 7:16:39 PM734 days agoSubscriber
2088947Phinland10118/12/2018 5:55:24 AM729 days agoSubscriber
523093TNT47338/15/2018 8:53:24 PM725 days agoSubscriber
2106924jamiecr8848/18/2018 10:30:42 AM723 days agoSubscriber
1318209kickass39889/2/2018 5:54:31 AM708 days agoSubscriber
2047497Lobsta12659/24/2018 3:10:16 AM687 days agoSubscriber
2157649DragTheLake7359/24/2018 5:53:12 PM687 days agoSubscriber
1886602Althea201110/9/2018 12:22:57 AM672 days agoSubscriber
2176109FabianB67011/5/2018 9:33:55 AM644 days agoSubscriber
536396SilentPartner472611/20/2018 10:27:52 PM628 days agoSubscriber
2179399sleeping_offi66011/22/2018 7:19:57 PM627 days agoSubscriber
1974358Windfire167112/3/2018 6:10:40 PM616 days agoSubscriber
284446shadowkiller522412/17/2018 2:48:53 AM602 days agoSubscriber
2168172RyVoid69312/18/2018 1:06:06 PM601 days agoSubscriber
2103449ElderSign90312/19/2018 1:47:46 AM601 days agoSubscriber
2203302grason61012/22/2018 11:56:41 PM597 days agoSubscriber
2025077Keyfordeath138912/31/2018 7:46:56 AM588 days agoSubscriber
1360894Glenmordor39291/5/2019 6:42:28 PM582 days agoSubscriber
2080009DrDreas10781/28/2019 6:01:32 PM560 days agoSubscriber
2193523ElRapha6302/17/2019 8:09:15 AM541 days agoSubscriber
2130956Fishmemes8092/25/2019 8:05:43 AM532 days agoSubscriber
1625126Kato30522/28/2019 3:09:49 AM529 days agoSubscriber
1830879SpartanWolf23603/2/2019 3:01:54 AM527 days agoSubscriber
1180338Ronnie_Frown41403/5/2019 6:40:18 AM524 days agoSubscriber
2195616Lost_Knight6253/6/2019 7:52:33 AM524 days agoSubscriber
457239EddieTH48343/9/2019 1:39:16 PM519 days agoSubscriber
2084243hexagon610493/10/2019 2:32:09 AM520 days agoSubscriber
1606870scottmetroid31423/14/2019 10:41:57 AM515 days agoSubscriber
2233021Kungfumonkey5613/15/2019 7:44:51 PM514 days agoSubscriber
672163Andy_Leigh45773/16/2019 2:02:30 PM512 days agoSubscriber
2187950Kriminal856433/19/2019 4:55:39 PM510 days agoSubscriber
2248524ClaytonKT5383/22/2019 5:49:29 PM507 days agoSubscriber
2059094Xhed12083/23/2019 1:10:35 PM506 days agoSubscriber
1515034PsYcHo035343/24/2019 8:33:25 AM505 days agoSubscriber
223626Ninnuam53233/26/2019 12:24:51 PM502 days agoSubscriber
1869584Jombar21233/27/2019 3:13:06 AM502 days agoSubscriber
2263853Zekelas5143/27/2019 7:36:40 PM502 days agoSubscriber
2206812Hypn0tick-Noob6053/31/2019 5:22:04 PM498 days agoSubscriber
2257844BlueShadow2005234/2/2019 1:52:31 PM496 days agoSubscriber
2143851orchimaru7784/6/2019 5:00:29 PM492 days agoSubscriber
22277030pponent5704/26/2019 7:21:54 AM473 days agoSubscriber
2275846JackMcgurn4904/28/2019 11:59:54 AM471 days agoSubscriber
2260651TargetPract1ce5195/2/2019 9:14:45 PM466 days agoSubscriber
2209583TheWanderer276015/2/2019 10:30:21 PM466 days agoSubscriber
1876012Fingercroxx20735/4/2019 7:47:25 PM464 days agoSubscriber
1885235Signalman20165/6/2019 1:41:44 AM462 days agoSubscriber
728391Funkydunk45385/6/2019 11:24:22 PM461 days agoSubscriber
1947828Chev_Chelios_18365/12/2019 5:49:51 PM456 days agoSubscriber
2285730Bambamman4755/13/2019 2:39:28 AM456 days agoSubscriber
2154986Whoislou7405/20/2019 2:53:40 PM448 days agoSubscriber
1923953oppy19165/21/2019 6:36:37 AM447 days agoSubscriber
2188685scareface236425/21/2019 9:49:47 AM448 days agoSubscriber
2180263Arteminium6575/21/2019 3:05:46 PM447 days agoSubscriber
2004464Saihashi14915/26/2019 8:57:12 PM442 days agoSubscriber
2196285TheGingerbeard6235/31/2019 1:31:05 AM438 days agoSubscriber
2258930BlkTmplr5226/2/2019 11:24:39 PM435 days agoSubscriber
2236309Potatro5566/11/2019 3:54:04 PM426 days agoSubscriber
2150770Vampkahn7546/14/2019 9:34:46 PM423 days agoSubscriber
2251719Simpledan5336/21/2019 10:42:42 AM417 days agoSubscriber
2291033GeekDadvTheWrld4676/23/2019 3:41:14 AM415 days agoSubscriber
2279707Biggdoggtorr4846/23/2019 4:10:42 AM415 days agoSubscriber
2057828hobbescs12146/26/2019 6:24:48 PM411 days agoSubscriber
1737710Bathtub26406/30/2019 8:27:24 PM407 days agoSubscriber
2246983mrwalker25b5407/1/2019 3:36:14 AM407 days agoSubscriber
2182837Valacian6537/5/2019 1:19:32 PM402 days agoSubscriber
2143715LegendOfStein7797/7/2019 12:20:19 AM401 days agoSubscriber
2156272PeeMcGee7387/7/2019 3:42:52 PM400 days agoSubscriber
18578281vasari22347/12/2019 2:47:14 PM395 days agoSubscriber
2204789onefusion6087/14/2019 4:40:19 PM393 days agoSubscriber
2337541Texanmike3997/23/2019 5:29:29 AM385 days agoSubscriber
2222442Tokie5808/1/2019 10:05:25 PM375 days agoSubscriber
2321378Dieranger4288/4/2019 7:01:11 AM373 days agoSubscriber
2162740Tinkhnskelta7168/4/2019 9:27:42 AM372 days agoSubscriber
1796566EzrealUchiha24668/8/2019 7:33:21 PM368 days agoSubscriber
2348862Spuder3798/10/2019 10:08:00 AM367 days agoSubscriber
2326023Baiogg4198/14/2019 3:40:49 PM362 days agoSubscriber
2236047AngelAlexis5568/18/2019 6:53:34 PM358 days agoSubscriber
1665979dagest29038/19/2019 4:21:44 PM357 days agoSubscriber
213523Jager53458/22/2019 8:41:51 PM353 days agoSubscriber
2201121Killz4food6148/24/2019 12:06:26 AM353 days agoSubscriber
2019956jbrokik14158/24/2019 12:38:47 PM352 days agoSubscriber
1976369master500616568/26/2019 10:13:22 PM350 days agoSubscriber
2173127daj926788/28/2019 12:53:37 PM348 days agoSubscriber
2295061Chelsabear4628/29/2019 4:37:50 AM348 days agoSubscriber
2307304ruddick834478/29/2019 9:55:30 PM347 days agoSubscriber
2199465Zechnok6178/29/2019 10:06:10 PM347 days agoSubscriber
2209190Snakeman126019/1/2019 5:57:10 PM344 days agoSubscriber
2154534Auroch7429/4/2019 1:48:31 PM341 days agoSubscriber
2248014Sempurai5399/4/2019 3:42:55 PM341 days agoSubscriber
1964074Abitch17409/7/2019 11:55:22 AM338 days agoSubscriber
2201837Snickers766139/8/2019 2:28:06 PM337 days agoSubscriber
2014014B80474914369/8/2019 5:58:11 PM337 days agoSubscriber
2004981HoneyCuddle14879/9/2019 2:04:32 AM337 days agoSubscriber
2341846V_G_Preach3929/9/2019 9:57:03 PM336 days agoSubscriber
2132243Housellama8079/9/2019 10:20:35 PM336 days agoSubscriber
1507504Katja35649/15/2019 6:41:02 AM330 days agoSubscriber
205113Leatherface53589/18/2019 2:38:18 AM327 days agoSubscriber
2362186Ksaad1343579/18/2019 6:31:19 AM328 days agoSubscriber
2163322Striderknights71310/2/2019 2:02:03 AM314 days agoSubscriber
2310303Xhamara44310/3/2019 7:00:57 AM313 days agoSubscriber
1508271_Longshot_356110/4/2019 11:40:20 PM310 days agoSubscriber
1583632gdub325210/5/2019 4:58:51 AM310 days agoSubscriber
2163273frumpyplanet71310/7/2019 4:07:15 AM309 days agoSubscriber
1931928amAMZing189510/7/2019 6:51:54 AM308 days agoSubscriber
2171051Aust673268410/9/2019 9:52:37 PM306 days agoSubscriber
2285501Wick3d-Wolf47510/10/2019 1:00:14 AM306 days agoSubscriber
788076SevrinTiger450410/10/2019 7:24:35 PM304 days agoSubscriber
2355171evenadam36710/12/2019 3:22:58 PM303 days agoSubscriber
2318234DogsofWar91143210/14/2019 2:59:54 PM301 days agoSubscriber
Dragon [1486770] · #93
Edit and update:

Special thank you to Chedburn for acknowledging this. Personally this just reinforces the idea that Chedburn does care about where his money comes from even though legally he is well within his right to continue taking subscription money !

[image: i.imgur.com]
bogie [148747] Admin Staff · #95 · edited
Yes. We have had a few discussions internally about this recently and have decided from an ethical perspective this is the best thing for our customers and player base; Torn is not a money grabbing company and we want to do right by our player base.

I've been going through and manually correcting subscriptions of inactive users over the last couple of days and will continue to ensure on a weekly basis that such things are taken care of with help from Chedburn and Chris our economist.

Whilst I understand there's a certain argument of "well X company doesn't inform you/It should be players responsibility" - we don't want to be X company that does such things and feel this approach fits better with the ethical standpoint we wish to maintain.
Brakier [2095393] · #98
Does this mean that we might be able to buy sub like we buy dps from the donator house, couse before players told me it couse inactive users and shit, but now with that argument out the window. i dont see any reason why we couldnt.
iribuya [2103695] · #100
Well then I would like to ask if it's possible to convert my 520 days for donator to 260 days of subscriber. And if not why that would be a bad plan.