Ranked War Adjustment

in that war you used PT outside hits fairly extensively so i'm not exactly sure what your argument is.

ME is far from the first to utilize these strategies. i faced them against silverhand and brazilian unit all the way back in january/february, and i implemented them myself to a lesser degree during my time in aquarius after seeing firsthand how effective they could be when used correctly.

back on topic, it's a slippery slope. if we limit outside hits to only two attack types, then the next gripe will be about SEDs, then blood bags, then flying. i simply don't think that it's worth changing the core of the game to make a single aspect move more quickly.

i get as frustrated as anyone when the opposing roster is locked down, but in my view it's part of the game, and quite honestly it's one that rewards activity - as i stated in my previous post, it becomes incumbent upon you as a faction to be faster than the outside hitters, and if you are not you risk being punished with long waits.

The slippery slope argument is dumb, the reason I myself agree with this change is because getting outsiders to hosp your faction for 8hrs at a time is not indicative of your "skill" as a faction, it's say PTs activity that's being tested there.

Whereas bloodbagging requires you to be active every hour, SEDs less so- but it's still an action you have to do yourself, it's disingenuous to call outside hits "the core of the game"

We can agree only having 2 options at the end of the fight might not be the best solution, but what else is there? Clearly ranked wars aren't meant to be fought from the outside due to ED, so why keep it like this?

with flying you can be untouchable for, what, 6-7 hours at a time with standard flights and delays? i fail to see much difference practically between the two.

i'm not calling outside hits the core of the game, i'm saying that attacks of all stripes are a central facet of the game. limiting them in one instance and one instance only is antithetical to the game.

ED was introduced with the medical changes, which were introduced for territory wars in order to help prevent HOF factions from setting up one player proxies to rake in racket income, and which predate rw by several months. personally i don't think that outside hits in a rw setting are as gamebreaking as those racket farms were, especially as they're now used nearly universally, but i'd be far more inclined to agree with rolling back the medical changes than limiting attack options at this point.

The "core of the game" is simply attacking.

Restricting people from attacking people participating in a RW opens up a whole can of worms, people will find a way to use this as protection, and not being able to attack someone is kinda stupid, that's where it's going against the core of the game.

Next thing it will be "why do you get protection in a RW but not a TT war". "Why do people get protection during RW and TT wars but not raids" How far do you want to press the issue?

From a faction successfully using this tactic, why should Torn devs have to rewrite copious amounts of code and change mechanics because you (or whoever) is slightly slower then the merc?

Furthermore, the other options of self hosp time include blowing your self up or filling yourself with the wrong blood type are equally as stupid, in my opinion.

Let's remove early discharge then and use this exact same argument?

Doesn't make sense right? Just pull out your wallet or make allies?

When you are flying you can't exit the hospital on command, that's the practical huge difference.

You say limiting attacks is antithetical, having to battle multiple factions in a 1v1 ranked war is antithetical...

We aren't talking about rackets, ED was created to stop outside interference in any wars, as stated in the announcements predating ranked wars the Medical update and ED was setting groundwork for ranked wars.

In a leave/mug world, the opportunity for outside hits still exist, it's just way more resource intensive.
On the subject of bounties- no idea how that would work, I'm not a dev but that does seem like a huge hole in this suggestion.

The core of the game would still be intact? Where did I say that you couldn't be attacked? The argument is remove the "Hosp" button and that's all.

Again a slippery slope argument- not worth arguing against because you will just move the goalposts again.

Mind expanding a bit because I'm missing the point ?
To me ED is to protect from agressive outside hits not friendly hosps

Mercenaries are mercenaries, their effect is the same, what does it matter if it's offensive or defensive?

And before people think I'm complaining about this, I'm not, it's a valid strategy in the current system, I'm just advocating for changes to what i feel would be a more fair system that's actually indicative of a factions strength, tactics can still be employed, mercs can still be hired around enemy bonus hits, mugging/leaving is still 15-35 mins in hosp after all...

Okay we can keep it simple.

Now no faction could retal against an attack on their member from someone participating in a RW

Now no bounties could get claimed on people participating in a RW (The majority of the bounty mechanic would be paused during weekends)

Now trolls could abuse other players without any real consequence until the RW was finished and they can't get hosped directly or from bounties.

Edit

My opinion is we need a better way to address this issue

I agree the bounty aspect is a huge hole in this suggestion.

Maybe having retal available opens up the Hosp button, bounties over a certain value opens up the Hosp button? Idk, these aren't elegant at all and are pretty confusing to add, just spitballing.

What would the consequences be if we just disabled ED while a faction is in a RW? Compared to removing the hosp button

Faction families/Mercs would lock down enemy top hitters and we'd be back at square one

Is that better or worse then exploiting ED for defensive purposes?

Could ED be changed to 'certain amount of outside hits from a certain amount of unique factions'? This could make merc contracts harder then just hiring a single faction, and cover most faction families from locking down hitters except the likes of Nuke

I agree that something should be done.

Not sure if this is it, but i guess the amount of atacking from mercs during a war with just leaves and mugs would make it not financially viable so it could work...

This however requires a bit more than just removing a button, you would also have to make bounties on those members unavailable to be claimed during the war duration (nobody has time to go check if all their bounty targets are in a war or not before throwing 25e away).

On the other side of the spectrum i supose paying someone to smack the oposing heavy hitters would still have the same benefit it does now of leaving them with low life and out of action for a bit (as with ED having them hosped wasn't really much of a thing in most cases anyway).

It does make it more time consuming than simple bounties though, as you would need to actually go out and hire someone and not relly on the implemented system, but i think its a fair enough tradeoff and does not completly cut the use of the mercs.

Half the time the defensive hits are just to put inactive members out of action, being unable to be attacked for score, nothing to do with ED there.

Interesting idea about the multiple unique factions though, would just make rise to some "agency" I'd reckon though Load image: laughing

The only "ranked" thing about torn is how much money you have, change my mind.

Jokes aside, there was this suggestion that I saw way back that I liked, but OP didn't care to garner support for it.

In a nutshell, if someone in a ranked war is in ED status (from any friendly/hostile outside hit), they can be attacked by the enemy faction as if they were not in the hospital, as if they were not attacked by said outside hit at all (HP and whatnot will be as they were before being attacked). This while-in-hospital attack will then overwrite their current hospital status, which will put them in a non-ED hospital status.

EG An inactive is attacked at the start of a war (they have full health before being attacked) by an outside hit and recieves 6 hours of ED hosp time. The game recognizes that this is an ED hit and returns the player's health to the amount it was before the outside hit. At this point, the opposing faction can initiate an attack on the ED player, and the fight will occur as if they weren't in the hospital at all. Once beaten, the ED status of the player is overwritten by whatever option the opposing faction chooses (most likely a leave). That 6 hour ED time turns into ~20 minutes of non-ED 'leave' time.