Attack your Attacker

Sub 5,000 HOF

Someone else can just get that retal then, if it's just low stat players relying on this there should be plenty of others in your fac that can take them down.

If you're the only one in your fac that can get the retal on this one guy then they're clearly not a "lower-stat player" (plus I'd argue relying on one strong player to carry the fac is a losing strat in itself, but that's offtopic).

And if it's suddenly a whole bunch of people hiding under your ass then that's a bunch of people wasting their time and e doing nothing else while letting your team mates run over them and their fac.

Again, teamwork. Torn is not a solo game.

Is this a surprise? This suggestion is intended to give yet another advantage to the strongest players in the game. Of course they’d vote in their own interests.

Likewise lower stat players who rely on activity and teamwork to counter their lack of stats will be against it.

The fact that forum votes are not anon means many people won’t downvote a suggestion for fear of retribution so you top players continue to operate in this ridiculous echo chamber where you honestly believe your own bullshit.

Truth is this suggestion is game breakingly stupid. Thank god it’s probably impossible to implement.

I really don't see this as game breaking.

Game breaking would be removing the fair fight bonus or increasing raid respect lost by 7x. Load image: laughing

Then I think that kinda adds to the point that this favors those with high stats and would give them more advantage over lower stat players.

7 seconds isn't even enough time to wait out a flash

Can you define lower stats players?

EDIT: sorry, managed to miss the last page.

I think saying anyone outside the top 5000 is low stats is a bit ridiculous, it's completely relative, Torn is not a game for just the top 5000 people.

I can see where you're coming from(kind of) but a couple of points.

• If it were to happen then 7-10 seconds is nowhere near long enough, even if attacking a player and taking 25 turns on an average internet connection will take up to a minute so imo should be nearer to a minute, advantage of being the attacker shouldn't be taken away from those that genuinely want to attack.
• Sounds hard as hell to script without crashing(no scripting experience)
• Countering a sell mug, again, I also see as an advantage to the higher stats player
• The main one for me is when you are waiting out a needle/smoke etc, this is a perfectly viable tactic that would be completely wiped out if this were implemented.

Mate you’re a smart dude. I think you’ve realised how bad an idea this is during the course of this thread. It’s like billionaires voting for lower top bracket tax rates. Of course stat beasts will vote to become even more impossible to stop. But that’s not good for the game. Taking agency away from thousands of players so a few hundred can feel unstoppable is objectively a bad decision.

Mentioned above - sub 5k in HoF. So below 3b?

I can't believe no one else thought of this, R+.

*Maybe somehow you get notified if your currently being attacked if your online? Not sure how this would work.

like, there've been some good counterpoints to this suggestion, but you can't say it's taking agency away when in its current iteration it's already taking away agency from those who get attacked and can't counterattack. andyman's suggestion is not a cure-all, but its intention i believe is to help solve non-gameplay (being basically stuck unable to do any actions to counter it), or at least point it out.

for the record, i personally think andyman's suggestion of counterattacking after ~7 seconds is much too quick and not the best fix, but i would like some sort of action that i, as a single player, can make instead of waiting around for something to happen. though i don't know what would be both interesting and more or less fair. i'm excluding messaging a friend as in the end i'm still passively waiting around for something that might happen, but perhaps that's the wrong way to look at it. either way i'm open to seeing what people on both sides of this suggestion think.

Level 3 initiating attack on Bodybagger.
[image: 3.bp.blogspot.com]

It has always seemed weird to me that if I discover who is attacking me, I habe to just sit and take it or call in a friend - never understood the logic of not being able to counter attack.

Level 3's being used as a strategy to stall titans seems more like an exploit of mechanics rather than an intentional element of combat and combat strategy.

We could smurf it, so you are only able to counter on people higher level than you (but then it encourages more level-holding, and again the logic behind it is weird).

Does counter attack need a larger E expenditure to it, in an effort to balance against the claims that suggest this penalizes low stat / favors high stat players?

What is the appropriate threshold? 50e, 75e?

I guess this will go as far as Ched/bogie since many people vote on names, and don't dare to vote against big names.
It was scary to downvote someone like Andyman, not as scary as some other HoF faction names.

I think it will never happen, because with this type of change, you need to change the complete attack function. That someone can take over as an attacker sounds crazy. Honestly if they are going to sew more cushions under HoF asses, they can just delete this game. If a level 3 noob can't do anything in a war, why would that player want to play this game?

And for those that are talking about how people have spent time and RL energy/money to get their stats, why not do with those stats as in real life. After you hit 5000 days, stats decline, with let's say 0.01% a day.

But i have to say, the game can't get better if no one says their opinions about how the game is and affects them. So good that people voice it, but I am against this.

TLDR. If this passes and gets implemented it just shows that game owners only care about HoF and we will soon see the decline of the game.

Like others have said, if you can't retal the level 3 because he's attacking you, get someone else to hit him.

Seems like this suggestion was made because you got annoyed by something everyone else manages to work around.

R-

Honestly I don’t think it does remove agency from the player being attacked. I’ve been that player many times and I have options. I can choose to wait out the attack, I can ask for help, I can just ignore them and keep attacking other players who aren’t attacking me. Options, agency.


On the other side of the coin if a huge stat player comes online all I can do is attack them and hope people join. That’s it. The only other option is to wait to be hosped in which case I may as well be offline. Remove that option too and now I have no agency.

Please, please, please feel free to downvote this suggestion and any future suggestions I make if you don't agree with the suggestion! I 100% don't take downvotes personally and won't think of you negatively simply because we disagree on how we feel a game mechanic should work. Load image: smiley

It's incredibly important for players from as many backgrounds/playstyles as possible to speak their mind without fear of recourse!!!

Well i dont fear you in this way and dont think you will put me on a shitlist for stuff like this. Think there is other that would do that.
But i have to say that i dont like your sell mugging. (was only 500k or so, but still)

And we all need to have good number guys out there. Keep doing it.
WE just disagree on this

For reference, so far in the ~24 hours of the Jux vs. PT Penguins war, I've been unable to capitalize on three separate retals due to not being able to counterattack.

It'd be OK if defends gave score, but they don't. Right now, they can hit a faction mate, then immediately jump into an attack on me to avoid my retal. Several seconds later when my factionmate initiates an attack on them to peel them off me, they can immediately yeet into my flail or RPG to avoid the retal that way with no score loss while also using 25e from my teammate.

Ah, I mugged ya, gotcha.

Just trying to pay the bills brother! Sleeping on cardboard is no fun!

it just sounds like to me that it only favours the super strong, enables people to roll boosters while under attack, so you could be trying to group someone and have their passives constantly changing mid group, especially shite if the player is able to swat people out of their own loaders also altering the debuffs and distraction mechanics

Would be a cluster f**k trying to run groups on people to the point where I dunno if it would even be possible outside just throwing bodies blindly at the problem and hope enough joined before they all get swatted out or die due to their stats being 5x'd due to them rolling boosters while under attack, potentially wasting thousands of energy every war

This suggestion sounds like its come from Monarch to directly counter the strategies used against them during the island war and doesn't really do anything to benefit 99% of torn but heavily buff the top HOF stats, or just say it only benefits M for their next island push.

another thing, waiting out someones temp would be a dead mechanic if this change went live, they could roll all 4 indefinitely while you watched, basically nerfing the attackers advantage into the ground