Skip to content
TORNLIFE More

Happy Pride 2023!

Started by Nyx [2236278] Officer on in General Discussion.

541 replies · 15.1k views · thread synced · 4 days ago · View on torn.com

Posts archived: 542 / 542 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch

biosterous [2377874] Wiki Contributor
mandatory reading: the paradox of tolerance

tl;dr for the incredibly lazy: if a tolerant space begins to allow intolerant people, it rapidly becomes an intolerant space. not tolerance for the intolerant, less they ruin everything, like they usually do
CharmRiver [2334174] Reporter
I was wondering if there are more asexuals playing torn? As the + in the alphabet it's hard to not feel a little invisible sometimes.

Love all the loving, but for my life is a solo game!
WhackedMaki [2587660]
I know of at least one or two others. It's not my place to out them if they don't choose, but you are not alone, and your feelings are as valid as everyone else's feelings.
Noah [1309544]
But, what's wrong with this so called pronoun phenomena? That's what i can't fathom about. Being gay or lesbian and knowing ones during the old days was much simple. Nowadays, it is pretty much like reading the encyclopedias. Either way, that's how i felt. No hate intended.
Patient [2131539]
That is absolutely not what it means, people just love quoting it as an excuse to claim that censoring and calling for violence against anything that disagrees with them is totally fine.

If anything, you are what it's warning against.

It's not "Any views that are intolerant should be silenced" but "Unlimited tolerance will lead to ideologies that refuse to engage with rational arguments and thought, encouraging avoidance of any engagement with any argument against it with accusations of bad faith(e.g. calling everyone who merely disagrees a bigot, claiming they want people to die), and immediately resort to force to oppose those views(banning from platforms, calling for violence against them, etc.).

The point of the paradox of tolerance is that in a society with unlimited tolerance, eventually the ability to disagree will break down in the name of tolerance and lead to some ideologies resorting to violence, and that some ideologies would abandon rational discourse and disagreement and default to suppression, accusations, and violence, and thus actively promote intolerance.

It's about warning against the elimination of dissent or the compelling of thought through force and violence.

The thing is, I literally have never seen any discourse calling for the use of violence against LGBT. On the other hand, I have seen countless calls to "punch a homophobe" and "kill all the TERFs" and "kill all the transphobes" in response to otherwise harmless, rational arguments.

Not saying this is what is happening with moderation in Torn, just trying to point out that the way most people refer to the "paradox of tolerance" is ironically nothing more than a manifestation of exactly what the paradox warns against.
tinuviel_p [2806671]
The thing is though, supporting equal rights for gay people is not really an ideology, being treated equally by law and being protected from discrimination are human rights, which does make disagreeing with it plain bigotry. It is not the same as disagreeing on whether or not pineapple belongs on pizza.

In my experience I have seen a lot more violence towards LGBTQ+ people than towards homophobes, more often than not us gays receive the responsibility of remaining civil in the face of blatant threats because if we do not remain civil then that gives even more fuel for the bigots to attack us. I am honestly amazed that you have seen more calls for violence against homophobes than gays because for so many that is not the case. Because of that I am glad for the moderation that Torn has, it allows for us to feel safer, at least here in this online city.
nex [2054500]
I am honestly amazed that you have seen more calls for violence against homophobes than gays


It's not that far fetched, if you pick and choose where you get your information from. An example being right-wingers who exclusively listens to Fox News and InfoWars claiming "everyone" says climate change is a hoax and the Democrats are a death cult. Yes, "everyone" in their little echo chamber says that, but not everyone in the real world.

Luckily the real world doesn't change just because bigots screech the loudest.