In what world are any of the three methods you mentioned money making for new players?
Boycott Item Market starting April 22
Started by Hopslam [795412] on in General Discussion.
Posts archived: 379 / 379 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
It used to be 3%. They're increasing it to 5%, along with the anonymous fee, to try and pull more money out of the game
The issue isnt the market fee the issue is how the markets and bazaars are set up in comparison with each other. It is unrealistic (As we are already seeing) to assume bazaars will be used via advertising, word of mouth, or personal relationships for the bulk of items (outside of very high prices specialized ones) or the bulk of people.
Frankly part of why i've found these changes frustrating is the problem and the solution seems very obvious, though I grant im someone immersed in the market. And the whole mess we have now seems to have been very avoidable (and the problem that was fixed not a problem at all).
The problem we have now, is essentially we have a market system and then a shadow market system that is accessed only via addons and tools from outside the game. If you have those addons and tools sure... you might even be getting slighty cheaper items from the bazaars for at worst a little extra hassle. But there are many problems with this set up... to list then.
1) It is not fair to expect players to have to use addons outside of the game just to access basic game features. Addons as the name implies are meant to be extras to organize things not requirements to use basic game features.
2) Many won't use them for a variety of reasons meaning we essentially have two mostly independant and unequal market systems.
3) Depending on which addon you use, some items in bazaars just flat out won't be visibile (some addons list items above the market as it used to be some are external sites)
4) Because only a subset of the player base is using the bazaar addons many traders can't list all of their items there forcing them to upcharge smaller players... because the cost the items isn't tied to the bazaar price but the market price. It piles more hurt on our smallest players.
To be honest the whole thing is one hot mess. And again the issue isnt the market fee in isolation (the old system had a fee too all be it not so high) it is the fact that there is not equal access to the item market versus the bazaar.
What is the solution?
1) Well the easiest, and most obvious, is to not mess up what wasn't broken before and no one asked to be fixed. Simply go back to listing the three lowest bazaar prices on the item market. That frankly just solves everything and is the overwhelmingly positive solution to this. Or if you refuse have a separate in game space where you can search bazaars by item. Not on the quantiy they have sold in the past (meaningless) but on the three lowest priced items *NOW*
2) Frankly if you can't or won't do that... remove bazaars fully. That isn't what I want and many people will scream at it. But if you refuse to make them visible then at least even the paying field. The 5% charge will be a giant headache but if it is uniform everywhere the market and traders will adjust.
3) Remove the fee on markets. TBH I dont think this fixes the root of the problem because you will still have items that some can't access without outside addons in bazaars but it would at least fix some of the imbalance.
Wasn't the whole point of the tax to make bazaars not useless in the first place?
They should put a 10% fee on the market to curb inflation
Id be all for boycotting the item market as how is adding tax to a game fun for the user at all lol?
But realistically its not possible with how ched has set item and bazaars up now, this feature was added in no way to benefit the end users that play the game.
Hard disagree, Weav3r's script shows all the bazaars and has a minimum item count filter which is awesome.
Those who like 3rd party have easier access to bazaars now. If you know what bazaars have the best deals it's easy enough to check their Bazaars any time you are going shopping even if it's not on the list yet.
Those who don't want to do that also have easier access to bulk sales on a better item market. No more having to buy up all the top 3 bazaars and spam refreshing the market page just to find the first bulk deal. There's a bulk deal right there on the item market. Four click buy (cart > amount Max > buy > yes) instead of 20 to 100 clicks.
I haven't gotten bot hunted since Market 2.0 dropped.
I don't need to flip as many items to make money with this syrem, and in fact am making more than I was before 2.0 hit. Hell I even lowered my Xanax buy price and I still get incoming trades for it.
Me when I'm drinking my coffee in the morning:
they werent useless before. Many used bazaars because there was no market fee and also the convenience factor of being able to open and close the bazaar without relisting each item.
For viciously grim rather than making people use an outside script for that, it would seem pretty easy to just have that added to the market.
Weav3r's script was not an easy fix, it took months for it to be released and depends on another scripter's database (Glasnost) to run it. Besides, chedburn has already stated he wants to make buying and selling of goods an underground community. He's got this idea that people are willing to sit and trade all day or something.
You want to know what trading ("trading" being all active selling activities including making trades, buying and selling on market or bazaar) all day does? It gets you on this list. This is not the average player list. And that's just incoming trades.
You want buying and selling all to go through trades, you're going to have people burning out. So, we buy in trade or off bazaars we find through scripts but sell on item market.
Mentions: (SE giveaway)1y RW trade, 160b+ NW, quitting torn · Activity Leaderboard March 2025
This isn't a good thing, it can be a specific community within the game but it shouldn't be reliant on third party tools to usable in the slightest.
Item Market 2.0 was a terrible move without other aspects to be considered and follows in line along with OC2.0 of Torns development methodology of giving players half of what should be released with any given content patch.
No offense to you here, but how are you making bank? Is your money invested elsewhere out of curiosity? Because currently your NW growth is slower than mine starting just warring in cache farms for pocket money each week with a blue name so unless I'm missing something it doesn't seem to be awfully effective
That is not a sustainable or good system. I understand Ched had a vision, but one of his strengths imo has always been his willingness to re-evaluate decisions when they just flat are not working out. I think these things arent set in stone and if the vision isnt working out well i suspet he will with enough time be open to making adjustments.
This? It is not working out Relying on an outside addon to make bazaars usable is neither fair to the member base or anything more than a bandaid to the problem.
So I suppose what i'd like to see. Is if others agree with my read (maybe they do not) is for us to continue to observe and note the problems occurring from this change. And then to petition a change to the vision to make it a bit more workable and fair in the reality of game play. Since while on paper the vision makes sense to me, it is not working out too well when the rubber hits the road.
Obviously at the end of all this it will be ched's decision. But I do feel we are seeing enough evidence to show it is not working out the way it was hoped for and an adjustment or re-evaluation should be considered. He may want to wait until everything is finished rolling out perhaps (though I think we've been steadily see problems mount not get better) but i see no reason to think he won't at least hear out fairly worded concerns/petitions to re-evaluate once we've had time to fully experience the system.
Look at my booster usage and you'll find my missing nw lol
Come check out my bazaar. Most items are listed below fair market value with the exception of some filler items for placeholders. Rather save on ched tax and give small discount to others. Win/win
*prices changed periodically throughout the day to keep up with market value*
I felt the same way at first, but I've come to embrace the new system. There's some major opportunities for financial gain here if you have the time and inclination. Torn Pal discord has exploded yet again with this post.
If ched changes things again, maybe incorporating Weav3r's script into Item Market 3.0 or something, we'll adapt again.
Ah, makes a bit more sense but doesn't really scream bank money to me still with the rest of the context.
Yes you've come to embrace it because you're one of the external tool users that will benefit from the glaring gap in functionality Ched created.
That's kind of the whole point Osravan is making is my understanding. I always thought the point of third party tools was to be an assist for certain things, not replace entries pieces of functionality they wanted to build months later
I see your point, I do, don't think I don't. I wish chedburn saw it too. But from what I've seen, his vision is the exact opposite. He knows his playerbase is script nerds, so he repeatedly makes partially functioning features that require third party tools to flesh out. You know, easy things for the community to code so they stay busy and don't get carried away making scripts that actually break the game.
As for the other comment, the rest of my nw growth is either in my husband's nw graph (I have vault access) or invested into our new faction (mostly gear, but also supplies until we start getting war money in).
In b4 bogie
You replied to my comment about how things might look with a released bazaar directory
By explaining how it exists without the directory.
I'm not talking about how things exist right now? What about the bazaar directory?
You won't HAVE to use 3rd party tools when this exists to make bazaar trading more fluid...
Is at least my understanding anyway...
I don't foresee a bazaar directory helping much the way chedburn described it. It sounds basically like just a forum thread where people say what they're selling. It would only be helpful if it is implemented like a Friend List with a sort based on whose bazaar is open. But even then, bazaars have to opt into categories, which means that either bazaar owners have to specialize in certain things to keep their spot on the list or spam all the categories (even if they're not selling those items that day - making the list useless).
Not to mention the fact that most bazaars sell 1 item at a time. So if they're open, they'll show up on the list as open but have no items because their one item has sold already (also making the list useless).
The bazaar directory is not the fix everyone is hoping for, at least not to find deals. It will help you find the bulk sellers, sure, but those aren't necessarily going to be deals.