Skip to content
TORNLIFE More

Ranked War Rewards Allocation

Started by EleventhParty [3636793] on in Faction Discussion.

8 replies · 367 views · thread synced · 4 days ago · View on torn.com
About this thread

Posts archived: 9 / 9 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch

Counted by TornLife from the archived posts.

Archived posts
9
Discussion span
→
People posting
5
Likes on archived posts
35
Posts by staff, officers and moderators
1
Authority score
56 / 100
Historical score
24 / 100
Story score
52 / 100
Engagement score
60 / 100

Most-liked replies

  • Qfiffle [2557282] Committee · 9 likes ·
    Our system is a bit unusual and based on what we want to incentivise and disincentivise. We've been doing it since the start of RW with only minor tweaks, so our members are used to it. I think it would …

Mentioned in this thread

Beerstein [1322136] ×1 DedeSiregar [2430598] ×1 Qfiffle [2557282] ×1

EleventhParty [3636793] · #1

Hi everybody. I'm interested in how various factions handle distribution of income / loot from Ranked Wars amongst faction members. 

 

I'm curious what y'all use, and why. 

 

  • What's the overall philosophy / strategy behind your compensation scheme?
  • Mechanically:
    • Do you use number of attacks, prestige gained, some combo?
      • If prestige is involved, how do you determine who takes the chain hits with an associated prestige bonus?
    • Do you / how do you consider "keep the chain alive" outside attacks?
    • Do you have minimum participation thresholds?
    • Is number of members in various timezones a consideration?
    • Do you like the way you do it or would you change things?

 

Very interested to hear whether there's a common set of approaches or whether each faction has its own scheme / philosophy behind it. 

Beerstein [1322136] · #2 · edited

Spent over half a year building and tweaking spreadsheets with hundreds of formulas and a few switches for certain situations. Once we were done we started using it as-is. It's been a while and I don't think anyone knows how it works anymore, we just submit to the machine.

 

It involves so many specific scenarios though like holding chains abroad, saving chains, using warlord, focusing on fair fight bonuses, valuing bonus hits like avg normal hits etc. etc. I trust our AI overlord.

 

Honestly from what I've heard of most they just do per hit occasionally with a few modifiers like chain vs war hit, nothing too complex. The benefit of our system is no one can say it's unfair if no one can understand it. But honestly, we nit picked out the tiniest shit that could be construed as even a little unfair, or resulted in what seemed like an outlying instance etc. when building it and accounted for that.

 

---

If you're running a fac and really care about your peeps though you'll take the time to build out a nice system that addresses all complaints and be transparent. If you lack capabilities to build, at least be very transparent so everyone knows the score and is making an informed decision.


In DA we were gonna explain it transparently to the fac but we discussed it and realized the ones that did fully understand it at the time had no way to communicate it in a way people would understand. I will say though we had occasional complaints before the system and 0 that I know of since.

DedeSiregar [2430598] · #3 · edited

A. No tax, big stats gets different pay rate for first 40 hits, then all hits for all members same rate. For my small stat mvp (most valuable players), I will support them in their business or other things that I personally will tailor for their needs 

 

Philosophy behind it?

The balance between justice and keeping my mvp. I do not see faction as family, but like sport team. There are ppl you can replace easily. But there are ppl that you only can get to meet once in a life time. Maybe it's their activity, loyalty, eagerness to improve, etc.

 

Secondly, why no tax? It's a principle I have since I bought my first faction. It is non negotiable. I do not wish to be exploited by being taxed by any faction leader, so I will not do it to others.

 

If my article about cache farming is approved by newspaper, you will understand why I can afford saying that. I do hv the certain skills and activity about wars and faction management above the average people. 

 

B. Random hits usually will count as war hits.

But we hv very strict rule about it. Unless I tell them to do random hit, they are not allowed to do that. If they try to do it anyway, I hospitalize them or kick them out. Either way I wont pay.

 

Philosophy: They use same energy as war hits. BUT it doesn't mean they can cheat the pay out system by doing unneeded random hits. Cheating pay out system = scamming the faction.

Get out.

 

3. No minimum.

I can tolerate inactivity now. We mostly only term wars anyway. 

 

3. Timezone greatly affected push time, chain time, and merc contract. I only have 1 guy I can 100% rely on. So those things actually depend on his timezone, not mine. I adjust my schedule to fit with him.

 

4. After many trials n errors. I feel current system is the best for us.

Beerstein [1322136] · #4 · edited

big stats gets different pay rate for first 40 hits

keeping my mvp

 

checks faction

Highest stats: DedeSiregar...

 

[image: media3.giphy.com]

 

Plenty of Plat facs would take any of your hitting members and pay more, Diamond if they were rabid enough. Even your "MVPs" so if they were there for the cash they'd be wise to leave.

DedeSiregar [2430598] · #5 · edited

Nah only seven, pluto, leon, and apollo.

Yeah they can but they wont. I know cache farming better than you. 

By they I mean other factions. The tax alone already chip away the income by 20%.

Best pay out is at platinum at size 10-30. N we are in platinum most of the time, unless I'm away for too long. The only way for them to get higher pay is if they run theirown farm. Which I will gladly fund if I can hv 100% ownership of the faction when they resell it. 

But to run a cache farm takes so much work. 

Qfiffle [2557282] Committee Committee · #8 · edited

Our system is a bit unusual and based on what we want to incentivise and disincentivise. We've been doing it since the start of RW with only minor tweaks, so our members are used to it. I think it would be harder to bring in from scratch now in a faction used to paying per hit or whatever. We did survey members about it recently and the overwhelming majority liked the system as is and the ones who wanted changes only wanted minor ones. Only one person wanted to switch to per hit payouts.

 

Basically we split the net profit evenly across all members who do 30+ attacks (including assists and including outside hits if we specifically ask people to do those). Why 30 when we want people to fully stack and that gives 56? Because we want people to be comfortable with sitting on e for pushes late in the war if needed, or being willing to turtle for hours even if that might risk them hardly having any time out of hosp to get hits in.

 

Why not reward people who do much more than that? Because we don't want to create incentives for people to snipe hits from each other; we want them to collaborate. It's also not always the case that more hits means more contribution. If we ask someone to chainsave abroad and only hit when chain is in danger, they'll do fewer hits but may spend far more time watching Torn and be more of a contribution to the final war outcome. Similarly if we have a big person who sits on e and only hits during tough pushes, they may be more of a contributor than someone who spams down their e as soon as possible while farming.

 

The system evolved with a few extra tweaks to help balance it further:

  • on a loss we distribute 100% of the profit in the above way, but we also add in FHCs as prizes to people who were judged as contributing above and beyond what was expected, which might sometimes be through high hit numbers, but might also be through chain saves, being helpful in chat, mentoring new members, coming up with smart strategies, etc.
  • on a win we distribute 80% through the above system, 10% in monetary prizes for the above kind of thing, and 10% goes to faction. If we can't easily determine enough people to get prizes to spread that 10% among, we carry some of it over in our "rainy day fund" which we then use to top up payouts on hard wars with low payouts.
  • after very short wars (i.e. less than 12 hours) where we've asked people to sit on their e for long periods or where there weren't enough targets to go around, we chain for a few hours to let people spend their stacks, and still count that towards participation, to try to stop people getting too antsy about not being able to get hits in.
  • if we end up with such high expenses that there's basically no payout left (or ridiculously small ones like under 10m) we do a week of free training xanax and refills instead of payouts, funded from other faction income. Surprisingly it doesn't actually happen this way very often despite us fighting every war for real and covering all expenses from faction, including needles, SEDs, boosters if needed etc.
EleventhParty [3636793] · #9

Thanks, everybody, for your responses. You each raise some really good points and show a lot of thought went into the systems you've developed. 

 

It seems like all of your systems:

  • Were designed with specific goals in mind -- nobody uses a straight per hit system, but all of you value transparency, even though if, as with Beerstein, transparent doesn't mean fully comprehensible and understood by all, it still means that no one feels at the subjective whim of leadership)
  • Handle edge cases well (Qfiffle  - i really like how your even split approach leads to a strategic e reserve for late pushes and emphasizes a spefific outcome as opposed to a predetermined set of actions)
  • Have an emphasis on player retention / satisfaction but also recognize that there are necessarily different levels of contribution (Dedesiregar's sports analogy)

 

There's a lot of complexity here - it's pretty cool how different approaches circle the same goals

 

Mentions: Beerstein [1322136] · DedeSiregar [2430598] · Qfiffle [2557282]