War Pay

How do you guys pay your members for war, standard per hit/rep? I found this doesn't work as it doesn't help incentivise my members to protect themselves from getting hit.

So we implemented this system (copied from our Faction forum)

We've had wars that have proved that war payouts by hit or by rep both have their flaws.

As an example a member that took 5 xans (proving 1250 energy) can make 5 hits, then act like a sitting duck for the rest of the war resulting in 50+ hits against them.

I'm sure you'll all agree someone doing this is a massive drain on the faction and causes us to lose wars, they don't deserve to be paid for this kind of performance, neither for the 5 hits not the rep they got from them.

To resolve this we've implemented a scoring system for wars which payout is based upon. It's as follows

Everyone will receive the following points;

• 1 point for a successful war attack
• 0.75 points for an unsuccessful war attack (you tried and used energy) 
• 0.25 points for a successful defence (enemy attacks you and fails)
• -0.75 (yes negative) for an unsuccessful defence (to avoid these use Ipecac/Bad Blood/Fly)
• -0.5 (yes another negative) for war attacks below the Faction Xanax you've used (if you use 1 Xan you get 250 energy,  we expect a minimum of 8 attacks per Xanax, this helps account for OD's, only make 5 and get 3*-0.5 to your score)

War pay will then be split by point amongst the members who have a positive score, if you're score is 0 or negative you won't receive any pay (you were a liability to the Faction during the war).

The data for this is not perfect (it's pretty good) in this calculation we're assuming that all stealthed hits against you are war hits (they may not be 🤷‍♂️)

We're also tracking members average score across wars (see yours here).

Be warned, if you're score is below 0 across 2 consecutive wars, expect to be kicked as you're helping our enemies in war and causing us to lose.

Our first war with this system comparing to pay per hit is here.

Thanks,

AF Leadership

[image: snipboard.io]

Just keep track of your bleeders who are apparently getting hit 50 times in a war (never heard of self hosp?)

This is so overly complicated and I bet your members don't really know what or how any of it works.. 👀 

Members don't need to know how it works, they just need to be happy with the end payouts. Shouldn't you be out plastering penguin stickers on the streets?

DA has more complex stuff than that with exceptions etc. that was built over 6+ months finding outlying ones with issues etc. until it just always worked. No one knows how it works anymore, but our pay looks pretty good.

I'm getting those penguin stickers made up don't worry 🫡

TBF your right about leadership knowing about how it works compared to members..

I just don't like over complicating things if I can help it, Im not a excel guru though so I could imagine some of you guys with your spreadsheet 👀 

Things to consider

• Warlord use / Fair fight bonus encouraging people to hit within their range instead of easy targets and pull you ahead more. (avg respect excluding bonuses)
  • As an example, take your bottom half on avg respect per hit, then your top half, now grab the difference and see how far your fac fell behind by people logging in, dumping, logging out and generally just being checked out. Seeing some get 15 avg per hit and others 2 is f**king painful! It means one persons single hit did more than anothers entire energy bar.
• Chain saves
• Holding chain abroad
• Chain hits for people below a certain stat threshold
• Chain hits for people above it

In general encouraging high avg respect through Warlord/Fair fight/Higher lvl targets can be the diff between a win and loss. This is especially important if your fac stats vary wildly from strongest to weakest and you got top guys dunking on weak targets, then to top it off not having the goddamn courtesy to stick a warlord up their sphincter.

Our faction pays 100% minus expenses. It’s being re-evaluated to potentially provide funds for armory weapons, chain pay, etc… but as of now, this is how we do it. Keep in mind, we have some new players that can’t make hits in every war, don’t use outside merc’s, etc…

Here’s two different scenarios, depending on if it’s a termed war/war where everyone has targets, and one that requires getting creative. 

War 1: 

Total Cache Value: $1,500,000,000

Xanax, Spies, Boosters, Etc…: $60,000,000

Total War Pay: $1,440,000,000

Total War Hits: 700

Total In-House Team Hosps: 40

Pay Per War Hit: $2,000,000

Pay Per Self Hosp: $1,000,000

War 2

Total Cache Value: $1,290,000,000

Xanax, Spies, Boosters, Etc….: $60,000,000

Total War Pay: $1,230,000,000

Total War Hits: 650

Chain Building Outside Hits: 300

Total Self Hosps: 40

Pay Per War Hit: $1,500,000

Pay Per Outside Hit: $750,000

Pay Per Self Hosp: $750,000

Can obviously change the percentages depending on what the faction cut will be, but these are the general figures. 100% minus expenses. Outside hits for chain building (from those who can’t make war hits), and team self hosps pay 50% of war hits. 

Wait we have to pay people?! 

Me spamming Ipecac/FAKs then hitting the gym.

Load image

So you uh..recruiting? Asking for a friend.

OH GOD WHY HAVE YOU SAID THIS. NOW I WILL GET MANY MAILS 😭😭

Shoulda loaned my gun to Warbirds.

It didn’t help DoA 🚬 

It’s happened before, lol. We like to win, and we do a lot of it, but for every 5 recruits we get, one ends up a part of the ‘core’ group. Bad apples have cost the team money, sure, but the majority of our members are really loyal and call stuff like that out when they see it. 

but, yes, we’re always recruiting 😂

As someone not part of the leadership in my faction, I know for non-termed wars they pay for every hit with a FF score of 2.25 and above.  I believe expceptions can be made for chain savers, maybe a few others.  I would love to see what other factions use and if there's a method that helps reduce fighting over targets.

It really depends on your faction - if you’ve got a bunch of mercenaries who are min-maxing their war profits, you might need to be this detailed.  If you’ve got a bunch of grizzled bloodthirsty bastards who just want to win, something much simpler is usually just fine.

I think if you have to penalize people, it means you need to teach them better - or prioritize the success of the many over the thoughtless selfishness of the few.

GGN, or get good(er) nubs.

Edited to add, since you didn't get an answer:

In our faction, you score a full award point for a successful inside hit, and .5 points for outsides/assists. If there is a surrender (ours or theirs) then it's 1m/hit from surrender to completion. We average between 1.8m-2.8m per point, which means even a little doing 52 assists/outsides can make out like a millionaire.

Good luck punishing people instead of just not wasting any energy on them and unloading them :)

Oh we unload them too, 2 negative scores in a row and your membership is up for review. 

Issues is we always have new people coming in, generally they see 1 war where they get nothing (dispute being told to use the Faction blood and ipecac or fly) and others earning tens of millions and they smarten up.

4 points for a successful war hit, 2 points for an assist, and a FF multiplier layered in. NSO 2 always gives 1 point for a non-war hit for now.

We've debated penalizing bleeders, but we'll eventually just kick you instead. We don't feel like dealing with the nuance around bleeding. Some people look like they bleed a lot, but they are just getting retaled a lot or we've thrown the war and now we need ot remove that bleed from the equation. No thanks

I feel like paying people for unsuccessful attacks is going to lead to abuse. Smart people will avoid detection. Not a big fan of the penalty for not using E either. Feels like people can get burned during quicker wars because of their timezone

I feel like paying people for unsuccessful attacks is going to lead to abuse. Smart people will avoid detection.

We had this debate when we first started paying for lost attacks (meant mainly to cover assists where you throw a temp and get one shot after) and this really has not turned out to be the case. People usually join a warring faction because they're interested in warring, not because they want to sell losses.

Also at least in our faction, it'd be impossible to abuse this without detection. We're either fighting together or we're turtling together. During pushes, we need active assists on bigger opponents, and people who pitch in deserve to be paid. If we're farming or turtling, someone will notice in real time if a player keeps joining a fight on a big player for no reason and dying repeatedly. And it'll show up in the war report as well. We use a lot of assists, but someone showing up with 40 losses and nothing else would still be quite unusual.

I have been exploring options to keep things fair, but honestly with the amount of termed wars that we have it's impossible to find one that makes it truly fair for everyone. For example, our Australian/New Zealand members who aren't there for war start rarely ever even get a chance to get in hits.

That said, the system I've used is to pay out a % of war proceeds.

So, a member would receive:

( ( Cache Value - Xanax Expenses ) * Payout % ) * ( Member Hits / Total Hits )

In some wars I have also used weighted payouts if I noticed that some members had a lot of assists, chain saves, oversea hits, etc. In those cases, the above payout weight would be 70% - 80% of the payout make up, with the other considerations making up the rest.

For fake wars can just assign hit count limits to try to time it to last 24h or just over. If it goes over you can re-assess and add more hits to the counter. May take a war or two to get a feel for the numbers but this is a way where it works for everyone. DA has had 0 issues with these.

You could set aside a percentage for high average respect per hit people or something if you want to encourage use of warlord/fair fight bonuses to save energy for everyone. So like anyone over 10 avg respect per hit splits 10% of pot, 10% to fac, 80% global split.