(Re)Quantify Your Impatience - Training Guide

Bear with me if I don't know certain game mechanics well enough, and I'm also reading this at 1am, but I didn't quite understand the "Actively using energy to make cash" part. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm understanding it is if you're at 100m in each stat (or were you meaning 100m total bs?), you would need to gain 26.13m per attack to make the 25e worth it? 3.12m for 1b in each stat, 1.09m for 5b, etc? So essentially, one shouldn't mug at 100m per stat unless you get 26m or more from the attack? I guess part of it is me not understanding how 25e could be worth millions. Also, I have never been in the mercing loop, so I have no idea what the going rate for 1 merc attack is these days, and if it is multiple millions, please enlighten me lol. 

Also, awesome post, much appreciated!!!  

If you have 100m in a single stat, then you would need 26.13m of an SE to replace the gains you’d get in the gym for 25E.

(Slightly more after your faction’s steadfast bonus)

So you’d definitely attack for 26m. It would even be the best way to get stats.

But of course, you’ll soon be seeing worse (percentage-wise) gym gains, so if someone offered you 10m for a hit you should still take it. Pretty soon you’ll have used the gym a little more and would much rather have the cash. So there’s a kind of patience curve here too. Super, super long term, anything over half a million will end up being positive. But that’s probably too far away to be a sensible level of patience.

Another point is that if a merc hit gives more than the can required to do it, then most people are ahead. So there’s a sensible rule of thumb that works for a long time: do a hit if you get more than the can costs.

So look at this image again with that story (^) in mind:

[image: i.imgur.com]

This makes a lot of sense. Balancing net worth and stat growth is food for a long discussion.

You don't want to be the person that burns their net worth to get to the point where SE's are great and then not be able to afford them. You also don't want to be that person that never spends any money on training and therefore never gets anywhere. 

Cash is king. Always has been.

R+ 

So at what amount of bathe stats are SEs worth it? After 2B?

The line moves with prices, but…

1. After about 2.5b, SEs > training with cans or FHCs.  ( in every way)

2. After about 7b, they’ll be worth literally twice as much again.

So are they worth taking at 2.5b?

Only if you’re in a rush to get the 10b total stat merit, but not in a rush to get the 100b total stat merit.

If you’re after the latter, save up about 140b and then take them all at once in your whore stat.

Interesting, ok! I understand this graphic more now with your explanation, thank you! 

One thing I'm not understanding still isthe cost of 25e compared to Damp Valley. Because Damp Valley is only 10e, and even with max voracity it's still only 15e. Ohhh but I guess 2 damp valleys beat out 1 santa shooter as far as cost goes. Ok, nevermind, correct me if I'm wrong but I think I fully understand now lol. 

Is #1 true of all cans though? I know it is true of the extremely inefficient boosters like FHCs and XMass, but I thought that (at least with current prices), the lower energy cans retain their value over SEs for much longer.

Yeah, you got it. And the price of cans floats pretty hard, so treat the can lines as blurry

You’re right - there’s a different number for each can. And the number changes with price and steadfast.  2.5b was, at the time I made this picture, the crossover number for the cheapest cans. Xmas will dip can prices, so that might go up to 3b for a couple of months. But then can prices will rise, so if you hold them you could sell.

My feeling is, even if you’re rushing by training with cans: if you’re anywhere close to the crossover, just save up for SEs. Then take them as late as you can, whenever your discipline runs out :)

[image: i.imgur.com]

This is such a deliciously considered article. It is one of my favourites.

The missing piece of information, which is encapsulated in your suggesition to quantity your impatience is that I think statistically, there is a general decreasing trend of interest in time to the game.

We probably see this fairly clearly with players who started playing in their teens then now in their 30s and 40s they find their interest waning.

In general, your thesis is that delaying immediate gratification now and investing resources pays off in the future. But multiply this by the decreasing trend of interest (and increased probability of dropping out of the game) and there might be an optimal point of investment.

Torn is not a game with a known endpoint. And for a lot of people, competing with this best is not a feasible task unless they are interested in whaling. A lot of the vets I know in the 15+ year range are simply not interested in min-maxing anymore. They just want to chill out and have this game as part of a familiar routine. 

100%

“Know thyself”

I have sold some RW gear and am enjoying higher passive income as a result, and will attempt to can train with damp valleys for this year (yes I'm can training multiple stats), in an attempt to grow my stats at a pace which engages me with Torn, while also building NW.

Main thinking is if I spend my money on stats (tangible return, nice feeling of number go up), even suboptimally/impatiently, I'll be having more fun and stay engaged with the game as I attempt to bring my passive income up to the point of considering SE use as a reality, not just a dream. 

My idea is to become extremely patient once I hit a certain level of passive income, and train my chosen SE stat to 10b before starting to SE... 

I recognize this will take many years, and I am open to changing my mind if I find that goal unsustainable/I start to lose interest in Torn

Makes sense to me.

I felt a qualitative change as my BS went from 100m to about 2b. Suddenly I wasn't being attacked randomly all the time, or always in the "well, try to help, maybe" category in wars. Past that, doubling my stats a couple of times hasn't changed much. I would imagine (hope?) there's another qualitative change to the fighting experience somewhere above 10b (100b? 2t?  idk).

...which, if true, means that rushing the first billion could be worth it, because it makes things more fun. Then it's probably the right call to get income from your cash until you have enough to jump up to the next level. Personally, I won't spend down until I can at least get the last gym merits, which means a spare 190b. But then they'll come very fast.

I'm just rushing to try get to my goal of 5b total by 2027 haha.

haste makes waste

that NW is better spent on passives and other money making ventures (stocks/trading/war investments)

but its up to you, best of luck

PS: if you are gonna spend money on cans, get the MSC BBs first, its basically free E without the CD

It's all about requantifying my (im)paitence, after all.

And yeah i definitely see the allure of just going all in on passive income... NW growth is my 2026 priority, 5b total stats is a secondary, but still important, goal

Why isn't this bumped >:(

One of the best forum posts I've ever read, and deserves all of the bumps.

I've set my personal goal as reaching and maintaining $100b networth (because #MeritsAreLife), and then I'll start considering splurging on boosters/SEs depending on where my stats are. The real struggle bus is the limited number of passive (or mostly passive) investment opportunities after a certain point. While active income is very doable, the dream of steadily munching as many SEs as I'd like to on a passive income diet seems pretty far-fetched these days.

Are PI rentals the hypothetical "floor" ROI for passive investments these days, unless the market plummets due to oversaturation? I'm curious if there is a certain ROI threshold where, if it dips below that percentage, extra cash is better spent on boosters than continued hoarding.

The floor is cayman imo