I say ban every userscript except BSP (luv u brother tdup) and remove the api function for a couple months and see what the reception is.
A lot of people really are sick of having to download script after script to stay competetive, and as someone pointed out it makes people who work CS as a job have to do the same thing here too, which can be quite unfun (and absurdly profitable for em).
Websocket / Scripting Discussion Thread
Started by Klashnekoff [498900] on in General Discussion.
Posts archived: 57 / 57 posts (100%) · the total is Torn's reply count + the opening post at the last fetch
fully support API being updated to only updating once a day.
Anything that requires real time updates should be done by the players themselves. Everything else can afford to wait a day for the api to be updated.
Agree.
Maybe Live updates should only be for Full Access API.
Public to limited access API should have delayed update time of 30 minutes like as previously suggested.
Though not sure how that will work.
let delay online status API by 40sec. or online more than 10sec then update status. i will take the item out of market but my status on API still offline, so they come and mug -> wasted 25e
If I open a chat window with you I know your online status instantly.
Ah yes, wasting 1/4 of a bad blood bag to a 30 minute delay is my favorite part of selling on bazaars. Right after opening my bazaar is the perfect time to cook a meal for four. Afterwards, I might self hosp before we eat. Or I might not, because I'm a dumbass. And then I will bitch on the forums about getting mugged.
Jesus f**king Christ do you people need someone to give a class on self hosping
The game should do a lot of the stuff scripts do by default.
Things like actually searching bazaars to see what's for sale. Seeing hospital time on the war screen. Probably even a toggle to see ELO ratings as a basic stat estimate on the war screen and maybe the attack screen. Why do we need scripts to have even the most basic information available where we need it.
If the game it's self did a lot of this by default they could have a tighter leash on nefarious actions, likely easier to police too. Somewhere bogie said they didn't want to over complicate the game when asked why most of torn tools was not integrated. Have a basic and advanced version of game settings like virtually every other piece of software. Optional settings on so many games are pages of toggles, it's not a new concept.
A 30 minute delay on sockets and api is ridiculous. 15 seconds on posting on the market just like flying and 30 seconds on bazaar for opening should be fine. Also a 15 second delay in game from sale to cash on hand from bazaar and maybe market to fix buy mug sniping before the seller even knows it sold. People not online when they med out will and should still be targets. There is more than enough protection already for people in hospital to not get mugged.
Being carless should be a vulnerability. A slow isp and not running 47 scripts should not be.
The only script I use is TornTools.
Is great QoL and it only affects myself.
Anything that has to do with other players, for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage should not be allowed.
Fair fight scouter is okay because it only provides an estimate of stats, not the exact amount.
And attacking someone that you know is weaker than you, is not an unfair advantage, is just part of the game.
I'm a frequent overseas mugger, and I don't want this part of the game to be soiled by bad actors.
I'm too dumb to suggest a fix, but I hope people here get around that.
#NOCHEATERSINTORNDOTCOM
The reality is you can't "ban all scripts" because there is no way to detect script use in many instances. So, just get over that fact.
You can however, delay the API so scripts are less effective, and aggressively enforce websockets/scraping, which we have already seen over the last couple of weeks. I think we all agree that scripts that make things easier, but don't disadvantage another player, are perfectly fine. The issue is the API data that involves money or attacking. That data should be delayed. Five minutes is probably enough.
I know there is an argument that you can protect yourself regarding incoming/outgoing money, but having a robot look over your shoulder is not the game I want to play. To put it another way, if everyday, a policeman was waiting outside your house in the morning and followed you everywhere you drove all day, it would be very unpleasant and eventually you are going to get a ticket no matter how careful you drive. We are all human. We don't want predators watching us waiting to pounce. As an example, I heard about a player who sold his company back to the system - an interaction no one would be watching - and immediately someone was attacking him. That is just wrong. Give us just a bit of grace in our gameplay.
Agreed!!! Thank you for posting this. I feel like I'm screaming into the void here.
Adding a global cache to item market, even up to 60 seconds would be completely fine, but all of this other shit is just stupid as hell unless the devs actually put in the time to make the scripts part of the game.
Which they won't do because not everyone uses the same scripts!!
Why do they need to put in war filters when a nub like me is in the top 200 war hitters from 2025 (meaning most people barely even war when they war)?
Why do they need to add bazaar viewing functionality for the base user when most people can just live with the native item market? (And ched doesn't want to - key point here!)
It would be a waste of dev resources when the scripts already exist, the background API to use them is fully functional and monitored, and the devs have better things to do like fix serious memory leaks, the inventory, and add actual new features?
This is what we should be expecting if we are expecting anything to be changed at all.
Appreciate it but 5 minutes is not sufficient, even 5 hours isn't. API script muggers can still get sellers who are offline for a long time. They still have the advantage that they get to know for sure someone has sold something, even if it's delayed, while others don't because they don't witness the sale.
It also disadvantages muggers who randomly mug high volume sellers to hope for a good mug, or muggers who guess sellers' selling pattern to make mugging decisions. If the seller is always mugged after a sale, they're unlikely to get anything good out of it.
I'll reiterate my suggestion, API should not give any information on market movements. The item market and bazaar end point should be in limited key or full access key only. The information it gives will be limited to personal sales and personal inventory movements.
This will still give some space for bazaar/item market aggregator like TornW3B to survive, as long as people are willing to provide their limited API key for this purpose, while fully mitigating api mug bots.
While it would be nice to remove all of the transactional data from the API, you still have to consider that it is impossible to remove all scripting, and difficult to determine whether predatory scripting is occurring. Lets suppose all of the transactional data is removed from the API. What prevents a script that slowly rotates through the item market pages in a manner that is similar to how a person would manually do it? If you completely take away the API data, you end up enticing people to operate these sorts of scripts. I think the API should be delayed just enough where it makes it clear something is a script versus manual behavior.
Does a script that slowly rotates through the item market pages make use of websockets?
First, since it's non-API scraping, it's limited to one page only at a time. The scripter needs to actively focus on the page as well, after finishing the scraping, he has to initate the "rotation" (switching tabs you mean or click to a different category?) himself.
At the end, like you said, this isn't really too different than how a personal would manually surf the market, this is already a massive change who forces the muggers to actually make an effort in navigating because now they need to go through item market themselves, even with the assistance of scripts.
Getting to know for sure someone has sold something 5 minutes ago is very OP. No effort is required, you hear a discord ping, you jump in for the mug.
Whats really frustrating for me is and maybe someone with more technical understanding can answer this but anyone crying about API atm doesnt understand you have to abuse websockets to get api info for item market tracking?
Anyone who caught you with bazaar thats API and legal. Anyone who caught you from Item market sales would have had to abuse websockets which is why that should have never been legal in the first place.
API muggers don't know for sure something was sold or merely delisted. You are free to f**k with muggers by delisting your shit randomly until they waste enough energy on you that they decide to take you off their list.
Several sell muggers have kindly added me to their enemy list so I stop buying their mug bait 🥲 Too much energy wasted on me hahaha
You can also employ a ghost seller. Someone who has free anonymous listing to sell your shit for you. Split the risk. The anon lister has to understand how mugging anon listers work though, can't just be some random noob off the greeny list.
They can know by matching your listing with your name and then track your online status through another API endpoint. I never get mugged when I delist items while online.
"Ban every script except the one I find very convenient, that one should of course stay". Checks out, it unironically sums up a lot of "anti-scripts" people's attitude.
You can f**k up your API online status by closing your app before the API updates. I've written about this here. If you have your page open and ready to delist, let your status go offline by staying inactive for a while until Torn considers you offline (may need to go to screensaver). Then come out of screensaver, finalize your action, and immediately close your app entirely. You have now delisted as a ghost to the API.
You can fudge your last action by unequipping and equipping a hidden clothing item repeatedly right after listing anon. This is useful for when listing items anonymously. Must have your "fans" in chat bubbles to monitor their idle status when you do this though.
Mentions: Idle icon vs last action mismatch
Tdup is a friend so i shamelessly plugged him, of course if this went through there wouldn't be exceptions and i want there to be no exceptions, but its not gonna happen and if it does its not in this decade, why are you acting like i was being serious (about the exception).