Ranked War Matching and Ranks

Everybody has life going on in 1 form or another.  However many factions use it as an all day tactic.  What about putting in a rule that any hospital time or flying time over 10 hours a day results in losing score?  As someone who is actually willing to fight and be online ranked warring isn't much fun when the opposition hides 23/7.  I'm on for hours and hours and hours waiting for that 1 time that you fall asleep.  Not exactly "fun" which is what the OP wants.  He wants it to be "lucrative AND fun"

I mean just make a system that gives an actual rank based on Ranked War wins.  And then pay out a daily salary on a scale based on that RW score.  You want more daily income then you fight for wins.  

Really no different than rackets except new factions can't do anything with rackets.  Old timers and big alliances earned the spots on the map.  They get paid every single day for the racket whether they defended it today or not.  Since they rarely have to fight to protect it - it's a free daily paycheck.  I don't see why Ranked Wars couldn't be the same.  Get rid of diamond/bronze blah blah blah and just have actual rankings 1-500 or however many factions there are.

Turtling by itself does not actually earn score. So in the new system people who consistently earn no score would drop their rating.

Except that's not what you're talking about is it? You're talking about guerilla warfare tactics where the opposition is also hiding until you fall asleep in order to make score.

So if you're saying you want no turtling or limited turtling, you're talking about wanting terms.

You want a termed war.

Having terms doesn't mean you declare who is the winner before the war.

Terms just means you have some agreements in place, that you've agreed that something of equal value will be sacrificed or offered by both parties in a fair trade. You can literally term for anything at all. Terming is just an agreement of sorts between parties.

When we term we require a minimum loser score to be allowed to be earned by whoever is losing, and war end by matchup. Reject either of those two terms and we will not term at all. Doesnt mean we will win, just that we refuse to agree to concessions with no concessions made by the other party.

As for your rank-based daily payments, I'm fairly certain that's literally what Ched wants to avoid is free money for doing jack shit.

Oh I know - I term almost every week lol.

Also with the "free money" for doing jack shit....It's literally the territory system in play which I think they should focus on fixing before messing with ranked wars.

Oh okay kudos for being self aware then ❤️ We recently had to stop terming as rigorously because wars were ending too quickly.

I do love a solid termed war with no turtling though. Maybe when we have enough war history to establish our actual rank we can get back to them.

Edit for your edit - and yeah the territory system is kind of shit. I would go so far as to argue rackets are a significant contributor to resource and stats hoarding that this rating system is trying to target. The main issue is that ched doesn't play his own game and doesn't have dissenters from the plebs to tell him his ideas are shit.

Pandering to the upper echelon of the player base, including long term whales, only goes so far. They can disappear any day.

Cultivating new players and encouraging new player retention is a major hole in the socio-financial infrastructure of the day-to-day Torn game.

Rackets don't affect new players, so rackets aren't important to fix.

Matchups do affect new players. So that is more important to fix. I do think this rating system will help with matchup quite a bit, especially for factions that are noob-heavy, with older members who don't war as much but stick around to have some fun and help mentor and finance their noobs.

Well rackets do affect new players in as much as it puts them farther behind the whales.  For those of us who are trying to build a new faction and actually help new players which I'm assuming you and I are both doing - it's money that is being pumped into the system with zero effort inflating the price of everything and inflation affects new players a ton.  It's very hard to grow and ever compete with players who are getting a free paycheck from territories but those paychecks don't exist for new players.

For example if I reset my account to be a brand new player.  Every day Monarch, PT, TNL, NS is getting free money.  How do I as that new player get money?  All the while the old timers are pumping SEs and gym training so their "numbers" are rising rapidly and a new player which the game keeps bragging on hitting new members but new players are also probably quitting at very very high rates due to this.  And they don't even understand why they keep falling further behind.

Eh I just ignore them.

SEs, steroids, RW gear is all meaningless at the lower levels of gameplay. Sometimes the lower metals might intrude on territories, fight successfully for them even, but at the end of the day even that is meaningless posturing.

The diamond factions aren't fighting our noobs over eDVDs and Xanax, plenty of Xanax to go around. In fact these factions are the ones supplying us with our porn via rackets (maybe, idk nor do I care) and stocks/donator drops.

The prices of supplies we critically need for pre-bio noobs, such as Morphine and Ipecac, are primarily controlled by noob influxes. Same with poison mistletoe - more noobs means more noob whales who dump cash into the game for quick gains.

So we're really talking about two different echelons of factions here, who have nothing in common and will never fight wars together or fight over territory together.

I will never have 10b stats.

I don't have any interest in having 10b stats.

It would not be meaningfully beneficial to my wars for me to have 10b stats.

Hell, even having 600m stats has put me into the boring role of warring where I just have to mainly organize the war and keep other heavies off my littles so they can feed.

And with how much complaining there is about boring wars up at the ranks where 10b stats would actually be meaningful, I have 0 interest in joining that side of Torn. So there is 0 impetus for me to grow my stats much further beyond what I have right now.

And yet even with all of this, I manage to recruit and more importantly retain new players. Through periods of low activity. Through gaps in training. Sure they're not going to be getting the benefits they'd get in a diamond faction, but they also don't want or need what diamond has to offer, nor do they satisfy most of the requirements to even get into a diamond faction, even a noob friendly one.

Very solid ideas, I have nothing to pick apart. The community has ideas that could potentially work. That is all.

Looking at the RW history of Chromatic, it does make sense why this change would hurt a faction like yours. It looks like you are winning a good 70-80% of your wars right now, which would definitely be hurt with the new system.

But of the 100k daily players that play this game right now, how many of them do you think are benefiting from this system like you and the other top factions? You will say Torn is a grind game and you deserve these rewards because you've put in years to the game, but unless you quit or go inactive, 99% of the newer players, even if they play the game daily with 3 xan a day, will never ever catch up to any of you and never get to enjoy the "easy" wins you're defending. The current matching system is very clearly flawed. The game should match both sides of the war with an opponent that they can beat if they war good.

Pedro has said that in the first iteration the rewards are going to be untouched, but I hope in the next iterations they will be changed so that even the top factions can do real wars weekly without losing money. I agree with you that when wars go for days, especially for a faction like Chromatic, the costs can ramp up very quickly and make the whole war unprofitable or not worth it. I understand why in the first iteration you might term more, but with the reward changes I hope you will be able to term less. But in my eyes the discussed changes will already benefit every faction who doesn't have all their members in the billions of stats range, and want to actually war.

BUMP

Just give us one faction rank leaderboard that is an actual ranking leaderboard.  Let factions earn $ through other warring/battle mechanics and use those funds to put toward the faction ranking battles of the factions care about the ranking leaderboard.  

Then give factions other warring/battle mechanics that give monetary rewards.  Could be the caches, could be passive perk, or other monetary gains, or mixture of all.   Seasonal. Short term. There’s no shortage of ideas.  Sandbox type environment, there’s just so much potential for short term competitions. Or even repeatable things with just tweaks every so often to refresh things and avoid metas taking over. 

We love the wall mechanics, king of the hill type battle. We love the tug of war, score gap target mechanics.  

I understand Ched doesn’t want to scrap things just because, so much time and effort and care and thought and even $s went into building the territory system and ranked warring system, but dang wish Ched was more willing to scrap and redo. 

Like give us the king of the hill battle mechanics in some other manner. Give us the tug of war mechanics in some other manner.  Use the sandbox you have created to change things up.  

Make the 1 ranking leaderboard for the 1v1 factions wars so various factions can line themselves up against others and improve their rosters over time to rise in the ranks if they want. And then separate from that, create all the other battle mechanics to allow for monetary rewards and short term fun competition among factions. Put up random hills with a certain perk/reward and let factions sign up to fight over it. Then keep putting up more hills with dif perks and rewards.  There’s just so much potential for fun short term things.  But it would take Ched changing up things a bit from what he’s historically done.  And would he see that is worth it, or would he see it as ruining part of what makes Torn, Torn.   I think a lot of old time players just stick around because there is so much potential for these fun things, but then it never happens, and they slowly trickle away.

Like I get it, he wants the long term nature of the territories and rackets.  But it’s just dead and an unutilized part of the game for the overwhelmingly majority of players.  Something needs to change. 

Same with ranked warring, I get it, he wants the system set up and then just let it roll on perpetually, week in and week out.  I would suggest replacing it with the one ranking leaderboard, and then putting up the cache rewards in another way, like the king of the hill and/or tug of war battles that could be created in all sorts of fun ways. 

rabble rabble rabble I don’t even know what I just said anymore but I’m not gonna go back and re-read and edit, lol, so here goes… Post. 

I really don't understand why we don't scrap the entire thing - ranked war and territory wars - and then just make "territories" that you can fight over for set rackets.  It's so irritating looking at a ton of empty spots on the map and/or factions you could easily run over but huge alliances protect everything.  If you just had slots of different values that anyone could attack it wouldn't take long for the strongest factions to take the top spots and then you work your way down.  The wars would have to be real because you would keep the "territory" and big factions couldn't block all these new players entering the game from playing all parts of the game.  Then you could have the spots give monetary value as well as non-money value (ie. an extra % towards gym training etc).  Basically the same way rackets work using the money that's handed out via ranked wars and territories without causing stagnation from 20 year old players from blocking new players from participating.

I say open up the world, let's have territories in other countries, have a cap for terts per faction, those holding terts in torn can't hold abroad and vice versa.

Make match making fun, like your war vs faction b will begin in 5 days in Argentina,  let travel 2.0 allow for  war capacity etc etc, 

How about don't pay out the caches for wars immediately/reduce the payput significantly for each war. So very minimal which would just make back costs in most cases.

But then after an interval window of let's say 3 month long seasons based on the ending rank give additional rewards in caches etc. and drop ranks a little based on the ending rank (like a partial seasonal reset)

Sounds like a mighty fine suggestion https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=4&t=16564670&b=0&a=0

also; there’s always a cap on terts per faction 

If we didn't get paid to war, we wouldn't war at all and all of our new players would quit. Territory wars don't pay and we don't do those wars. We don't even have territories, and no ambitions to get them.

Wars don't just fund more wars for us. They fund training. They are critical for new player retention.

We don't win a series of wars just to be able to do a real war once every 5 wars. Every war pays the same and costs the same whether it is real or not. Caches need to be sold and members paid within hours so they can happy jump at least once or twice before the next war.

The cyclic tournament suggestion is fantastic.  We dont need a RW every single week -- it dilutes the significance of the event and winning the war.  Schedule tournaments -- maybe even let factions organize the tournament if they achieve certain status -- on a periodic basis, like quarterly. 

Tournaments would allow staff to create gorgeous matchups.  Charge factions a fee to enter the tournament and dont give everyone a participation trophy for playing.  

Perhaps you can even impose interesting nuances to each tournament, such as only using melee weapons or something like that.  This would add an interesting and fun wrinkle while also revitalizing the RW marketplace.  

Either way, I am very happy to see a positive change in the RW space. Ty for that

You will be shocked to hear that these changes will never impact cache farming of factions like Chromatic, who basically loves to war. You will find more than 90% of D-level factions who basically don't want to fight and just farm caches. These changes don't do anything because even if you get matched with someone on the criteria that they are selecting, you will still get 90% of term wars.

You might not need a war every week but we do, and we need the money that comes with our 2 to 5 caches.

Tournament style??? Mate you aren't aware that people switch factions every week??