Vladar: forum

BREAKING NEWS - NEW NPC ID#23 IS NAMED M’aol - LOAM BACKWARDS!!


UPDATED UPDATE: SAN DY LOAM LINKED TO QUACKS (ID#2) FROM 2007 FORUM POST!!!?!?

https://www.torn.com/old_forums.php?forumID=2&ID=2078884#
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UPDATE: S A N D Y L O A M is now censored - THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW - JUST TRY TO SAY IT - SAY HER NAME ***** ****

When I saw this thread get relegated to the black hole that is non-related, where no one would see it, I knew I had to dig deeper. I tried asking the community for answers in a Q&A thread but it got GRAVED by Paul despite me NEVER ASKING HIM TO DO SO. NOW I KNEW SOMETHING WAS GOING ON - ????? ???? IS REAL.

Need more proof? All you have to do is dig for it... BE AWARE

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BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE
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IT GOES DEEPER DON'T STOP DIGGING UNTIL WE'VE FOUND THE TRUTH

BREAKING NEWS BOGIE CONFIRMS INVOLVEMENT:
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CORRUPT “staff” PAUL warns me but is it a FALSE FLAG?

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CHED PICTURED OUTSIDE RUSSIAN GEOLOGY CENTER??


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TORN STAFF TAKING OVER MY ACCOUNT OT PREVENT AN INVESTIGATION????

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AFTER THIS CONVERSATION I REALIZED IF YOU TRY TO SAY S A N D Y L O A M it is censored! ***** ****

TORN HQ - TRUTH HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT?

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News ticker - who could be behind this???
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Have the rules changed just to keep the truth from the public??

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Threats from CORRUPT staff??? #BANBOGIE

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First Letter in Every Sentence in Latest Article Spells Out Message!?!?!

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***** **** MENTIONED IN THE NEWS PAPER 6 YEARS AGO... HOW FAR BACK DOES THIS GO???

"All in all, though, the city is heading in the right direction. And we have the venerable Sandworth Loamington to thank for that. God bless her." - https://www.torn.com/newspaper.php#!/articles/133




ORIGINAL:

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New basket appeared in my inventory????

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PLEASE NOTE WHILE MUCH OF THE INFORMATION IN HERE IS MORE OR LESS CORRECT, THERE IS A NEW, MUCH MORE ACCURATE FORMULA EXPAINED HERE: https://www.torn.com/forums.php#/p=threads&f=61&t=16182535&b=0&a=0

THIS POST IS NO LONGER MAINTAINED.


The Calculator can be found: HERE
Explanation of the new formula can be found: HERE

NOTE (As of 5/27/2020)

In coordination with the Journal of Torn Sciences, specifically Kivou, Prezze, Pyrit and Proxima (not to leave anyone out!), I have been working on a new formula. I have added this new estimate alongside my old estimate. At this time I will not be publishing the formula or giving any explanation as we are not ready for that yet, BUT, please let me know if the you ever get an estimated SINGLE train value outside of the shown margin of acceptable error.

I did my best to give an estimate for multiple trains but these will never be perfect as happy loss is slightly random.

Thanks.

For the rest of you math nerds that wants to understand how training gains actually works, continue reading:

In an attempt to explain how I believe gains are determined, I'll break it down into the components that go into it. Training is affected by several things:

Which stat you train

The statistic that you are training matters for two reasons:

• Most gyms have different multipliers (Gym Dots) for different stats
• Different Stats will normally have different totals, which is one of the primary factors in determining how much you gain

The total of the stat you are about to train

There is a linear relationship between the total of the statistic being trained and the amount you will gain. This has the general format seen below:

Gain = X * (Stat Total) + Y

As will be explained below both the variable part of this formula (X) and the "constant" part of the formula (Y) are both actually determined (in part) by your happiness level (which will be explained below). The general result of this is that at low statistic levels, a doubling of your statistic total will have only a very small effect on your total gains, where as at higher stat levels, a doubling of the statistic will roughly double your gains.

It is important to note that your overall stat total, or the total of the stats that you are not training, do not appear to have any effect whatsoever on your training total (i.e. if all of your stats are at 100k, a strength train will be identical to someone who has 100k strength and 50m in everything else, all else held constant).

Also (this is important as well!) there is a "stat cap" that occurs at 50 million in a given statistic. This does not mean that you can't gain statistics past 50 million, it just means that gains after 50 million in a given statistic will be constant (assuming all other variables are held constant). In other words - even if you have 1 billion in a statistic, the formula still uses 50 million.

Happiness

Happiness is the other primary variable in determining training gains. The first way happiness affects your gains is by modifying the multiplier. Again, the basic formula is:

Gain = X * (Stat Total) + Y

Happiness affects the value of X (and Y - more on that below). It does this in such a way that at very low values of happy, increases will have a large effect on the multiplier, while at higher levels of happy, the same increase will have a much smaller effect. This is because the formula for this portion is logarithmic, of the form a*ln(HAPPY+b)+c, where a, b & c are random constants (read about natural logs here, for the math inclined). The "b" constant is added in because otherwise this part of the formula goes negative if happy is less than 1. At any rate - if you're ever still reading this after all that math mumbo jumbo, due to the logarithmic nature of the formula, increases in happiness have diminishing returns. If you increase your happiness from 1000 to 2000, this will have a much larger effect than increasing your happiness from 21000 to 22000.

Some people will tell you that the effect of happiness is the same at low stats as it is at high stats - that it is a constant. THIS IS NOT TRUE. The more stats you have (up to the cap), the more happiness will benefit you in absolute terms, but as a percentage increase, it will be less and less due to the next part of the equation, which is the "constant" Y in the formula above.

The format of this constant portion of the formula is actually d*(HAPPY+b) + e, again where d & e are random constants and b is the same "adder" to happy as in the other portion of the formula. This is the part of the formula that doesn't care what statistic levels you have - here happiness has the same effect at 50 million as it does at 380, and because of this, happiness totally dominates the formula at low statistics levels. The end result?

• At low stat levels (lets call it <100k), increases in stats have a fairly minimal affect on your gains. At these levels a doubling of your statistic might only give you 10% more gains, or less. Increases in happy, however, have a HUGE effect (an increase from 100 to 5000 happy might give you 10 times or more improvements)
• At higher stat levels, a doubling of stats will approximately double your gains. Increases in happy will help, but the effect is much smaller (increasing from 100 to 5000 happy at 1 million in a stat is about a 30% increase in gains

The Gym You Train In

When you go to look at a gym, you will see that each statistic has a bar next to it. The value of this bar is what some people call the "Gym Dots". There are two ways to determine what exactly this value is - one is you can right click on the bar and "Inspect Element" and see what percentage it says (i.e. 36% of 10 bars = 0.36*10 = 3.6 dots). The other is to use www.tornstats.com/ and click on the "update your goals" - you can then pick your gym and see how many dots the gym has for each of a given statistic on the right side.

The important thing to know about these values is that it is a direct multiplier on the formula per energy trained, NOT per train. If you train once in a gym that has 4.2 dots and takes 10 energy vs. twice in a gym that has 4 dots and takes 5 energy per train, your gains will approximately 4.2/4 = 1.05 times better, because you spent 10 energy at each gym, and the one gym had a gym dot value that was 5% higher.

It is important to note that training in a 6 dot 10 energy gym will not result in exactly twice the gains of a 3 dot 5 energy gym, for two reasons - one, each train removes some happiness, which then effects the next train, and two, each train adds statistics, which then effects the next train - however these effects are typically so small than the next result will be very close to proportional with the gym dots (in this example, twice as much).

So in summary, it multiplies the basic formula as follows:

(Gym Dots) * (Energy per Train) * (Unmodified Gains) = Total Gains (before other modifications)

Training Multipliers

There are various training bonuses that you can get from your faction, from education, from items, and from your property. They directly multiply what your training would be if you had no bonuses. These can be found under your "personal perks" in your home/index page. As far as I can tell, these bonuses are multiplicative - in other words, you multiply each category of benefit to get your overall bonus. For example:

Property: +2% to all gym gains

Faction: +10% to strength gym gains

Education: +2% to strength gym gains

Book: +30% to strength gym gains

Total = (1.02)*(1.10)*(1.02)*(1.30)= 1.487, or an overall bonus of (1.487-1)*100 = 48.7%

Note that (again, best I can tell), you do NOT add them together. If you did, in the above case, the total would be 44% (and the formula would underestimate your true gains).

So, you take what your gains would be if you had no training multipliers, and (in this case), you would increase it by 48.7%:

Total Gains = 1.487 * (Training gains if you had no multipliers)

Training One at a Time vs. All your energy at once

Contrary to what some people will tell you, there is no difference at all in clicking trains one at a time to spend all your energy (such as 5 energy trains 30 times) or spending all your energy at once (150 energy in one go, for example). This has been confirmed by Chedburn in the following thread:

https://www.torn.com/forums.php#!p=threads&f=19&t=15961663

So unless you enjoy clicking train a lot more than you need to... go ahead and train it all at once.

Formula Summary

In summary, the general format of the training formula is as follows:

(Modifiers)*(Gym Dots)*(Energy Per Train)*[ (a*ln(Happy+b)+c) * (Stat Total) + d*(Happy+b) + e ]

Where a,b,c & d are constants, estimated values below:

a = 3.480061091 x 10^-7

b = 250

c = 3.091619094 x 10^-6

d = 6.82775184551527 x 10^-5

e = -0.0301431777

Example Data - How Happiness Changes Gains at Varying Stat Levels

Happy	Stat Gain @ 1k stats	Stat Gain @ 10k stats	Stat Gain @ 100k stats	Stat Gain @ 1M stats	Stat Gain @ 50M Stats
1	1	2	24	247	12356
200	1	3.5	33	325	16237
1000	4	7	39	356	17645
5000	21	25	59	404	19187
25000	107	110	148	523	20931
99999	429	432	473	876	22795

Happy	Percent Gain Over 1 Happy @ 1k stats	Percent Gain Over 1 Happy @ 10k stats	Percent Gain Over 1 Happy @ 100k stats	Percent Gain Over 1 Happy @ 1M stats	Percent Gain Over 1 Happy @ 50M Stats
200	0.00%	75.00%	37.50%	31.58%	31.41%
1000	300.00%	250.00%	62.50%	44.13%	42.81%
5000	2000.00%	1150.00%	145.83%	63.56%	55.28%
25000	10600.00%	5400.00%	516.67%	111.74%	69.40%
99999	42800.00%	21500.00%	1870.83%	254.66%	84.49%

Other Cool Charts

Using this formula, you can do cool things, like figure out the point at which premium training isn't worth it anymore... Which as it turns out is around 400k stat total (although it probably stops being worth the money much earlier than that, for all us non-restarts/multis, anyway)

[image: snag.gy]



Or you can figure out whether it's more beneficial to use an LSD or a Ecstasy when your starting out and don't have the money for xanax - it looks like below approximately 125k, your gains will be better using an ecstasy (note also that ecstasy has a lower cooldown, which makes it doubly good to take at low stat levels)



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Or you can show just how much worse it sucks to be drug free:

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TL;DR

Training gains increase in a linear fashion with totals in a give statistic.

Happy has both a constant portion that is the same no matter your stats and a variable portion that does increase with stats.

Increasing happiness has diminishing returns the higher the happy level gets

Happiness dominates your stat gains at very low stat levels and has a much more subdued effect at high stat levels.

Yes, SSL really is that much worse for stat gains than using Xanax.

You should stop doing premium trains before 400k in a given stat.

Try this spreadsheet HERE to figure out what your gains will be

If you want a better idea of how to actually APPLY all of this, check out one of the other great tutorials in this forum, such as Throe's guide to getting started strong here.

NOTE: If you're wondering why your happy jumps aren't as productive anymore, it's because I noticed an error in how they were working and reported it here and here. Chedburn corrected it per this update. He said "Fixed minor discrepancy training stats multiple times at once", but it was really a fairly major error! Sorry!

.

You should drink it and then use it to mug him.

NEW AND IMPROVED FOR STAT CAP CHANGE:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_-2F84ac3ggUD8I9fzrHiv_aTk5AA2hsjo7Cr365SCA/edit?usp=sharing

It is not exact yet, plz don't judge me

Training Gains Explained 2.0

Calculator

I know most of you aren’t nerds and just want to use my calculator. The Calculator can be found: HERE
Eventually I plan on working with YATA or TornStats to incorporate this into a real website but until then, my calculator will do. Please don’t break it on purpose, be nice.

TL;DR
No.

Introduction

Hello all - more than three years ago as a young player I was frustrated that there didn’t seem to be a good unified formula that could be used to predict training gains, and this was causing a lot of speculation as to what was actually better, how good different training methods were, etc. At that time I spent a couple months gathering data at different happy and stat levels, and eventually found a formula that fit pretty well, which is outlined in my original guide.

Earlier this year, however, Kivou started thinking about how to incorporate my formula into some more in depth math, and I felt inclined to tell him that my formula was close… but far from perfect. This set us on a quest to find the master formula - the REAL formula. We quickly realized this would need a metric crap ton of accurate data to do this, so Kivuo recruited Pyrit to create a script that he would host that would collect volunteer’s trains for analysis.

We then had a ton of raw data, but what to do with it? Luckily we have some bright minds over at the Journal of Torn Science (JTS) Discord - special shout out to Proxima for the huge help he was in this effort, and Pyrit for helping a lot with plotting and analytics that I’m too computer illiterate to do on my own - we spent quite literally weeks bouncing ideas off of each other, and arguing with each other, and shooting holes in each others theories, until finally we came to the conclusion that…. We were never going to find a “nice” formula that perfectly modelled gains. However, we did come VERY close with a messy formula - so close that it pretty much always predicts your actual gains within the margin of randomness.

So, without further ado, the below summarizes what we found, what we know, and what we don’t know.

What this guide isn’t

This guide is NOT to tell you what book is best to be used when, or how to train, or when to stop happy jumping. We may release guides utilizing this formula to answer those questions in the future, but this would become entirely too long if I included all of that. This does give anyone the tools needed to answer those questions for themselves, however… should they choose to do so.

The Latest and Greatest Formula

So… what is this great, accurate (but still frustratingly messy formula) that I was rambling on about? It is:

dS = (S * ROUND(1 + 0.07 * ROUND(LN(1+H/250),4),4) + 8 * H^1.05 + (1-(H/99999)^2) * A + B + RANDBETWEEN(-C,C)) * (1/200000) * G * E * (1+PERK%A) * (1+PERK%B) * (Etc)

Where:
dS = Estimated gain for one train.
S = 50,000,000 if above 50m, otherwise the actual stat total being trained.
H = Starting Happy
G = (1/10) * Gym Dots Result from API (i.e. 7.3 instead of 73)
E = Energy per Train from gym from API (i.e. 5,10,25,50)
PERK%A, PERK%B etc = each training perk for the stat in question (or training in general). Of the form 0.01 for 1%, etc.

A, B and C are unique to each stat, assumed to be the following

Strength: A = 1600, B = 1700, C = 700
Speed: A = 1600, B = 2000, C = 1350
Dexterity: A = 1800, B = 1500, C = 1000
Defense: A = 2100, B = -600, C = 1500

Side Notes:
RANDBETWEEN(-C,C) should be excluded from any actual calculation, since it cannot be accurately predicted.

OK, now WTF does that mean?

If you’re like me, you are probably thinking “Vladar, wtf does that big jumble of crap mean?” Excellent question. I will explain this in reverse order, removing all of the modifiers and extraneous confusing stuff until we get down to the base formula. So, that in mind, the first thing that I will discuss is…

Training Perks

Most of us have numerous training perks. These can be found in the API or in your home page under “Personal Perks”.

Some examples are those from Private Islands: Property :+ 2% Gym gains

Or from faction steadfast: Faction :+ Increases defense gym gains by 15%

Or from education: Education :+ 1% Defense gym gains

Each perk you have directly multiplies your base gains - they do not add! They are multiplicitive.

To change the stated perks to something useable in a formula, you divide the percentage by 100, and add it to 1. So, +2% gym gains becomes 1 + 2/100 = 1.02.

So as an example, if you would have gained 100 defense with no perks, with the above perks you would gain

100 * 1.02 * 1.15 * 1.01 = 119.65 (or a 19.65% increase) (note 19.65% is NOT the same as 2+15+1 = 18%)

The next thing that modifies the formula is…
Energy Per Train

This is the term “E” in the formula. This is a simple one - if your each train in a gym is 10 energy, the gain is multiplied by 10. If each train takes 25, the gain is multiplied by 25. You can find how much energy a single train is in a given gym on the Wiki, or in the API.

Some noobs get worried that a 10e gym with 4dots might be worse than a 5e gym with 4 dots… this is the reason why it’s not. Twice the energy spent on a single train = twice the gain. Note this does not hold if you’re talking about multiple trains in a row, because then you have to factor in happy loss, which I will discuss later. This brings us to the concept of...

Gym Dots

This is the term “G” in the formula. It can be obtained via the Wiki or via the API, however the API expresses gym dots as ranging from 0 to 100, whereas they are more commonly referred to on a scale of 10 (as expressed in the Wiki). For the formula, we used the scale of 10 - so Georges Gym is 7.3 instead of 73 as the API states.

Gym dots are again, a simple concept. Training in a 6.0 gym will give you 1.5 times the gains of a 4.0 gym on a per energy basis, all else held equal.

So that leaves us with just one other term outside the base formula which is….

(1/200000)

Why did we include that on the outside of the formula, and what’s the significance of 200,000? Well, ignoring the stat specific factors, when happy goes to 0, the base gain formula becomes….

dS = S / 200000

This trend is really easy to see and to confirm, and jumped out at us immediately. At 200k stats and 0 happy, your base gain (before all the multipliers above) will be 1. At (or above) the stat cap of 50m, your base gains will be 250.

So… rather than distribute this through the formula, we pulled it to the outside. This now brings us to...

The base formula

The base formula is

dS = (S * ROUND(1 + 0.07 * ROUND(LN(1+H/250),4),4) + 8 * H^1.05 + (1-(H/99999)^2) * A + B + RANDBETWEEN(-C,C))

Does that clear things up? No, I didn’t think so. But we can make it look nicer if we first have a discussion about…

Rounding

If you’ve even read this far, you’re probably wondering about the asinine rounding going on here: ROUND(1 + 0.07 * ROUND(LN(1+H/250),4),4)

Why are we double rounding? Are we insane???? No, but Chedburn apparently is. Whether this is relic from the coding, or intentional, we don’t know, but it’s one of the few parts we are 100% confident in. How can we be so confident? Because when we looked at the data, we were able to see that it wasn’t continuous… rather, it went in clumps. Below is a plot of adjusted gains (Y axis) against Happy (X axis), with actual data points as dots, and our formula approximation (unadjusted, more on that later) as the line.


[image: lh3.googleusercontent.com]

You can see that once we added rounding in, we were able to have our formula “jump” at all of the right points.

So… for simplicity’s sake, let’s remove the rounding, and look at what remains:

dS = S * (1 + 0.07 * LN(1+H/250)) + 8 * H^1.05 + (1-(H/99999)^2) * A + B + RANDBETWEEN(-C,C)

Hmm… not much better. So, let’s have a discussion about

Randomness

This the term RANDBETWEEN(-C,C)

Like most things in torn, trains also have some degree of randomness built in. In the case of trains, this randomness is not affected by happy or your stats, which means the effect is the same for low happy, low stat gains as it is for people training at the stat cap. Proportionally,, this means it is very noticeable early on, and not really something most people notice later on.

However, of course this couldn’t be too simple, so to make it more complicated, each stat type has its own variance… So that value of C is difference depending on what stat you’re training (approximations below):

Strength: C = 700
Speed: C = 1350
Dexterity: C = 1000
Defense: C = 1500

“Not to be rude, but this seems dumb AF Vlad” you are saying right now. And yes, yes it is… but we’re sure that this is the case. Take a look at this color coded graph (Courtesy of Pyrit):

[image: cdn.discordapp.com]

So on the Y-axis is the error that the base formula has, unadjusted for stat type. On the X axis is happy, which isn’t really relevant. You’ll notice that there is some scattershot quality to the error - that’s the randomness. However you’ll also notice that this spread is larger for green (speed) than for orange (dex), for example. This is why we know the random piece is different for different stats.

So how much IS this randomness, really? Using Dexterity as an example, it can be ~+/- 1000 to the base equation. However, this is then divided by 200,000, and then multiplied by the amount of energy you’re spending a gym dots. This means for a 50 energy specialty gym, the actual variance might be +/- 2, whereas for the starting gym, it would end up being +/- 0.1. However - keep in mind for someone with 10 in a stat, a difference of 0.1 is quite large percentage wise.

Now, you’ll also notice something else on that plot up there, which is.. Why is the yellow lower than all the rest??? Good question, imaginary person! That brings us to our next part…

Stat Specific Offsets

This is the term B

When looking at the data, we kept noticing that defense was oddly, annoyingly lower than all of the other stats. We thought at first that Ched just nerfed defense trains a little, but upon close examination, it became apparent that the centerlines of the error on ALL of the stats were actually slightly different. You can see this on the above plot - the center of the spread for speed, for example, is above the center of that for strength, which is above that for defense. So as it turns out, you need to add a stat specific offset to the base formula. We called this “B”:

Strength: B = 1700
Speed: B = 2000
Dexterity: B = 1500
Defense: B = -600

So similar to randomness, these values seem bigger than they really are, but still - in a specialty gym this means trains for speed will be on average 5.2 higher than a specialty train gym for defense. Huh! Note this isn’t ENTIRELY true because of the next discussion point also being stat specific but… it’s very close.

Now then, we’ll move on to…

The Ugly High Happy Adjustment Term AKA the “Proxima Hates It” Term

So, we were sitting pretty after a while, sure that we had nailed down the formula. “Ha - all we need is a bunch of good 99,999 happy data and we can confirm our formula. All is well! We are awesome smart good looking geniuses” the discussion went.

Then… we get the high happy training data, and realized our formula was annoyingly starting to over predict. We were SURE the rounded part of the formula was correct, but the other term not so much… so we started playing with it, and quickly realized that even the most minor change to the base formula resulted in huge swings in error. We pulled our hair out trying to figure this out and… we couldn’t. Something just isn’t right. We don’t know if it’s our base formula, or if there is something else that is stat specific that adjusts for high happy trains.

Examples of un-adjusted error plotted against happy for two difference stats are below (sorry for the y-axis numbers, they are rounded so it looks dumb)

[image: lh3.googleusercontent.com]

[image: lh4.googleusercontent.com]

So you can see that our error is not consistent across the entire happy range… it started to drop towards high happy.. Above, if you look at dexterity, it dropped by about 0.01, whereas if you look at defense, it dropped by about .015. Why would this difference in error be different for the two different stats unless… each stat also had a happy influenced adjustment term.

So, our best correction that we could come up with is…

(1-(H/99999)^2) * A

This term, at 0 happy, just becomes “A”, and at max happy (99999), it becomes 0. This seemed to nicely adjust for what we saw, but was annoying ugly and not clean. It is the part that we are the least confident in.

Now… if you’re still reading (HA!), we’ll explain…

The Base Formula

So with all that other crap stripped out, the base formula becomes:

dS = S * (1 + 0.07 * LN(1+H/250)) + 8 * H^1.05

You’ll notice this has two parts, a logarithmic function (1+0.07*LN(1+H/250)) that is affected directly by your stat total, and a power function portion (8 * H^1.05) which is not affected by speed.

As I explained in the randomness bit, we are VERY confident that the first part is correct. We don’t understand why 0.07, but that seems to be the number. The 250 bit is an adjustment term to your happy, because otherwise the formula would be stupidly small at very low happy, so this makes it so 250 is basically your “base” happy for use in the training formula. This piece of the formula dominates at higher stat levels, as it becomes much larger than the non-stat affected part.

The second part of this, (8 * H^1.05), we are not quite as confident in. Originally we though this term might be linear, but that definitely isn’t the case, and we were unable to find anything that fit better than this relatively clean power term.
This term completely dominates at low stat levels, but as it doesn’t become any bigger with increasing stats, eventually it becomes less and less important. This is why happy jump training is so good at low stats, and becomes less and less so at higher stats. For more of an explanation of the practical implications of this, see my original guide.

Conclusion

While we are not 100% confident that this is the complete true form of the equation, we ARE confident that it predicts trains within the bounds of randomness across all stat and happy levels (provided there is no user error!). So while it may not be able to nail it down to the second decimal point, we can come as close as possible to predicting your actual train using the formula.

So - you deserve a damn medal if you made it to the end of this. I am too lazy to proofread and my wife will get annoyed if I spend any longer typing this so, sorry for the mess.

Other Related Findings

Happy Loss

In order to accurately determine gains if training more than once, you need to understand how happy loss works. Through this research we determined the loss in happy for a given train is

dH = ROUND((1/10) * ENERGYPERTRAIN * RANDBETWEEN(4,6), 0)

In practical terms, this means:

Happy Loss per Train
5 Energy Gyms: 2 or 3, Avg. 2.67
10 Energy Gyms: 4, 5, or 6, Avg. 5
25 Energy Gyms: 10, 13, or 15, Avg. 12.67
50 Energy Gyms: 20, 25 or 30, Avg. 25

Multiple Trains

Multiple trains are iterated - there is NO DIFFERENCE between training one at a time 10 times in a row, and training 10 times in a single click. Both of them do the same thing in the background.

However - it is impossible to accurately predict multiple trains, as both your happy and the train itself has randomness in it. All this formula could do is tell you the bounds of possible results (which my calculator spreadsheet does)

So today I was looking at the number of Stat Enhancers that BodyBagger has used (Roughly 4800) and decided to see - if he waited until he had 1B in each stat, and then split those stat enhancers between only two stats (2400 each), how many stats would he have?

The answer is... 25.7 Quintillion - that's 25.7 Million Trillion. In TWO different stats. That's just silly. That means that even with 20 people in a fight, you would need almost 2 Trillion strength just to do damage to him.

This is POSSIBLE for someone to have obtained. There are players with near 1T networth who could do that today if they wanted to. This seems... wrong.

This game will continue for likely decades more - it's been around for 15 years already - people will continue to get wealth, so if we want to avoid stupidly meaningless high stats, we'll have to either make SEs VERY expensive (not fair to younger players), or cap their gains at some point.

So my proposal is this - cap the maximum possible gain that a SE can give at 5 Trillion per SE - in other words, SEs will give 1% per use, up until you hit 500 Trillion in a given stat, then after that - only 5T per use.

This would allow people to still catch up with BodyBagger, will not affect 99.9999% of players, and would act to prevent people from getting stats in the Quintillions.

I know it seems silly to think about this - but anything that compounds unchecked in this game is going to be majorly broken eventually.


To be clear - players could do this within two years with their existing resources. Also - it would take someone hundreds of years of training to get to 1T stats without SEs, yet alone to quintillion’s, which would literally require millions of years of training.

grats

 

how long did it take you

Most MMOs have a monthly or annual fee to play, though.  

Basically our options are:

 

1) Charge a required monthly fee to play.  We all know this would kill new player sign ups and ruin the game.

 

2) Sell our data to advertisers and heavily advertise on the site.  This would kill the whole experience of the game.

 

3) Have things the way they are 

 

4). Rely solely on donations that give no benefit to the donators, which would certainly require a huge cut in staff and would likely slowly kill the game 

 

 

Fair, it just irks me that bounties placed does not equal bounties received 😂 

 

I get the logic, though

There is a huge difference between a game where areas or features are effectively locked unless you pay, and games where play time becomes limited unless you pay, and games where you can pay to get in game money, which is just an easier way to get the same thing that is totally doable within the game.

 

Examples of true P2W would be if you couldn’t get beyond level 50 without buying something, if you couldn’t join a faction without paying, if certain gear was only available via payment, if you could buy additional refills with IRL money only, etc.

 

Dumping absurd money into the game gives you an advantage, but literally everything it lets you do is available and achievable to players that don’t put a dime into the game.

I have ~650 spies worth of points available.

 

I will do them for 1.5m per attempt - basically, if you want a full and I happen to get it, you pay 1.5m.  If it takes me 3 attempts, you pay 4.5m.

 

Or alternatively if you only want partials, they’re always 1.5m

 

Hit me up.  If you need them immediately I’m probably not your guy but I’ll do what I can.

 

 

NERD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used to play too :(

 

The graphic for blackjack from the casino page shows two Aces.  Arguably it should should a blackjack - A/J.

 

This is a minor issue and maybe doesn’t rise to needing a post, but it would make more sense.

2/7o best hand in poker

 

 

Marlon is that you?

 

P.S. why did you post this at 4 AM

[image: profileimages.torn.com]

 

I posit the following:

 

1) Kamala has personally invited millions of immigrants into the country

 

2) Many of said immigrants are dangerous and hungry and are eating household pets 

 

3) Democrats want to provide litter boxes in school bathrooms so kids can identify as cats

 

4) Ipso facto, Kamala Harris supports allowing immigrants to eat our children

Like the Kentucky derby except for torn

 

The Kentornky Derby?  The Kentucky Tornby?