[271R+] Revive Chaining

Issues thread created

Start edit: For this to receive an actual reply (let alone being implemented) you need to upvote this thread.

With the recent changes, something that most likely will change to a larger or lesser degree in the future, I wondered why "revive chains" has never been a thing. Naturally, revivers get cash for their revives, that does not mean that running a revive faction is anywhere near as easy as running a regular warring faction exclusively. Gaining respect is harder as a revive faction, revive during wars/contracts on top of chaining now and then, there is not much energy left for training compared to the regulars.

I suggest that revive factions should get some respect from reviving, say 15-50% of what regular chains would give. Exactly where the balance would be I'm not sure, but to replace 25E you spent during war/revive you would need to spend ~$1,750,000 (energy cans, and the price changes).

Revives costs ~$1M, so they get 57% of the actual value of the energy spent (energy spent -> replacement cost). Going with that number, they lose out of 43% potential respect gain.

A "revive chain" would have the same timers as regular chains, they would not cause any respect loss, bonuses would count the same as regular chains (though separate chain, revive specific). Keeping the revive chain might require members to revive randoms in the hospital.

Exactly where the balance is I'm not 100% sure, respect would be gained outside of "revive chains", I'm guessing the cap would be 43%, but perhaps it should be at the lowest possible price for E replacement cost for cans? (cost per E, can vs. can)

Anyway, I just got this idea, and instead of rambling without running all the numbers beforehand I guess I should just post this concept.

Edit: The Revive Chain would be a separate chain from a regular Chain, a faction could not do both for the same chain count and/or bonuses.

maybe with the new revive rng(ffs ched why), the respect increases if the chance is low

Good idea!

Great idea!

Popular with all the revivers I've spoken with, not so much with this nub

realistassasin disliked your thread

The again he does have a lot of enemies...

realistassasin disliked your post

Cheers m8

Awesome idea R+

Now is the time for Ched to show how much he values revivers and reviver factions.
R+

bump

I like it, thanks

It makes sense that there should be a chaining mechanic for revivers, but outside of attacking events, I don't think there would be enough targets in the hospital for this to work, especially if multiple revive factions are chaining at the same time.

Also, another thing to consider is that revive factions are always reviving, as opposed to most factions who alternate between training and chaining/warring, so it's not unreasonable to believe that revive factions would almost always have a chain active, so that's something that would need to be considered.

even top 10 factions let a normal chain die, you think reviving would be easier? revive every 5 minutes is a lot to ask for. Sure, 5-15 chains would happen on a daily basis, albeit at 15-50% the respect gain... I doubt we would see much more action from revives, but revive factions would actually be a viable option.

Revive chains feel like it would be a weird mechanic. Would there even be enough targets in the hospital for that? There's only ~1400 right now many with revives off. I think theres probably a higher amount than usual reviving so thats probably lower than usual but massively away from the chain sizes we currently have. So at a minimum, I think you'd have to drastically reduce the chain lengths. And when you run out you...have half your chainers leave targets? Gonna be funny seeing people get pissed at revivers for messing up their revivability :-D

I do like the idea of revives generating respect though.

Yeah I feel like actually getting any respect at all would be a step in the right direction. Revive factions not reaching 25k chains with 15-50% the respect outside historically large events is not what this thread is about. It's about providing any respect for revives at all, and you know what? Once we have those historical events, revive factions might reach 25k chains... Reviving should give respect, and while much rarer, we don't need to make it an ultimate respect whoring update, we can take it step by step. What do you think?

And revive chain would be 100% a separate from a regular chain, this is mainly one step, where it ends depends 100% on this even being implemented as a low minimum. Perhaps revive chains should be shorter? I don't want to take it that far until we see the pricing. Revives should be valued at $1M, adjust slowly so people don't undercut to hell if you ask me.

I'm not saying whether it's easier or not, but just by the nature of revive faction activity, they would be more likely to have a chain active at any given time.

Outside of brand new factions that are actively trying to gain respect for chain upgrades, smaller chains are virtually non-existant, whereas with revive factions, these smaller chains would be going on constantly just through revivers' natural course of gameplay, and it's something that needs to be considered when determining the respect these chains would reward and the milestones they're rewarded at.

Just like at the top end, if you match them to current chain milestones and rewards, revive chains are only ever going to get to this level before dieing simply because of a lack of targets, so just bringing over the current mechanics would leave the system unfulfilling I'd imagine.

Edit to clarify that I think it's a good idea for revivers to chain somehow and gain respect from revives, but you can't just copy/paste the current chain system without heavily modifying when and how much respect is awarded.

Just give 1 faction respect point per revive. It’s low, but it at least gives the niche revive factions some gain.

I personally don't see any issues with them having loads of tiny chains, providing 15-50% respect of a chain, them not having targets... they are still reviving for a higher profit than they did last week. I don't feel like we need butter on pigs fat. They got butter the other day, now they would get 15-50% butter on top (before we start talking about the pigs fat).

Is this concept suggestion balanced or fully thought out? Not even close, I personally lean towards what you are saying, but I feel like the concept needs to be introduced first so we can see the prices and balances. Chedburn and other staff would pay attention, I guess it all comes down to what they want the revives to be worth. They do need to see it in light of energy replacement and whatnot though, cheapest price per E to reach 25E, revives not fully replacing active warring and whatnot.

Think of this as a trial run before buffing it.

That could be a good start, do you think bonuses should be ignored all together? perhaps that revives after the bonus would gain the faction more respect, without the bonus providing any extra?

Baby steps for sure, question is how effective should revive factions gain respect from the get go (starting/testing phase).

No I mean like 1 respect per revive, period. No chain reviving, no counters etc.

i think the way you have put the argument, is wrong. you can not compare the respect gains with a warring faction because it is 100% choice of the faction owner to go for a reviving faction. He can not choose one path and then say "oh ppl on the other path are gaining something else, so i should have that too". Like that even warring factions can say "reviving factions get 1xan per 25E whereas we are not getting any money for 25E". Its a trade off and the thing is apparent right from the start.

just 1 respect? perhaps, time would tell, decent warring would provide 10+ respect... Starting at the absolute bare minimum and balancing up could be a good option. Starting at some respect instead of starting at respect + bonuses. I'll look forward the hearing from the revivers.