Gender swapping the character is built into the game - that is not the exploit. In its normal functionality it exists solely for the purpose of swapping gender if you were to changed gender IRL or wish to alter your in-game character at a later date.
Using the gender swap to choose a specific team in a competition however would fall under Bug/Exploit abuse, as you are rigging the competition. You are exploiting an aspect of the game, in this case the gender swap, to intentionally fill a specific team with high levelled members of the same faction.
"If you find an abuseable exploit, do not share it with others."
Doing what has been done in such an obvious way does appear to make it seem much more likely that it was intentional and as such members actively using the built in aspect for the purpose of exploiting it - and actively sharing the idea with other members.
Regardless of my thoughts, it will be up to Ched to decide, though by the definition it's pretty much a 'open and shut case'
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Also worth noting that the only one's trolling this thread appear to be Pink Power, which does not help things from their side and just makes them seem more guilty - especially after three separate teams have called them out.
Collateral Damage; Pink Power has a player group of 1000, out of which only 204 actively abused the mechanics and the remaining 796 were either unaware or only benefited from those players. Rather than actually taking out the people who have been acknowledged as abusing the mechanics or preventing them from getting the merits/awards/benefits of getting a higher place in the competition - instead they are just getting hospitalised.
Too little too late; Duke was unleashed upon Pink Power a few days after Elimination had started despite reports on Pink Power from the very start of elimination, meaning several players lost out completely and other teams had straight-up quit. Four teams were out the competition already with over 3000 players affected and the recent elimination of Original Gangsters adds an extra 1000 to that. With 4000 players basically out the competition before Pink Power even started to get punished, it makes the punishment feel meaningless.
It's actually helping Pink Power; Pink Power benefited from a simple tactic earlier in the competition, the weaker members remained constantly in hospital while the stronger members either intentionally hospitalised themselves or were too high level to reach. Duke as such is actually doing them a favour as shown by how they have slowly increased from 0 to 583 - the high levelled players are getting out and causing enough damage to support the entire team thanks to the massive amount of Xanax and refills they have.
The damage to Torn as a whole; Many users in Pink Power and other teams have stated they do not plan to donate or support torn financially in the future, the forums are littered with people pointing out how terrible this elimination competition has been and the bad word of mouth is going to drive away more potential players. The fact that the punishment is actually helping the team is insane and I'm not sure how it was overlooked that it was the worst idea possible to hospitalise them.
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To summarise, Duke is doing very little to actually punish Pink Power - at the rate they are going Pink Power may actually survive until the 5th Elimination round at the rate they are going or possibly still win the competition due to how broken the Elimination actually is.
After leaving a previous Job that paid $250k per day due to being offered a better wage from a company that never came through... I deciding to move to the city where I found myself searching for work. The job market being a tough mistress I spent several days searching, looking for somewhere I could apply. Hoping to cover my fairly high rent of $200k per day I decided to look around and messaged a local company known as Holes With Poles. The director [1510489] seemed nice at first, offering me a fairly reasonable salary of $650k. For a while everything seemed fine, with me slowly growing out of the debt I had accumulated... until it happened.
The director decided he wanted to pay less money to his workers in order to cut costs by $3M, by essentially reducing the pay of everyone by $300k. The incentive that made all his workers work harder was being removed. While the director used the reasoning that we could all buy thongs, I saw a flaw. I didn't want to be paid a much lower amount that barely covered my salary and live without the job security that the director wouldn't lay me off before I got a Thong.
Naturally I was disappointed, however I tried to explain that cutting the prices would mean that I would barely be able to afford the rent. I had been promised a salary and been living off that salary for a while and despite the director originally seeming alright to talk about it. Eventually I forgot all about the pay cuts and began gambling trying to earn more money, safe on the belief that I'd be able to cover the slowly growing loan via the income I was receiving.
Yet then I receive a message in the mailbox, a one day warning about pay changes. The director had decided to go through with it despite my comments to him. Desperately I left instantly, hoping I could find a new job quickly to cover my loan before the pay cut arrived the next day though after several applications, nothing turned out.
As the debt increased I knew my remaining savings wouldn't be enough to sustain me for long... then the phone rings. Its the director again. He is naturally annoyed that I wouldn't continue working for him for less money, raging at me for quitting. After apologising and explaining to him that I needed the money, he insults me then threatens me, calling me petty for worrying about affording the rent and threatening that he will message any future employers a message in order to prevent me getting hired, hanging up the phone.
I look back at the newspaper, realising I have been replaced instantly, likely by another young member foolish enough to trust someone who values their company over their employees. With a disgruntled sigh I flick through the jobs looking for a possible opening before the tax man comes...
So once again - a new announcement from Chedburn. Yet once again thanks to the poorly handled announcements section their is no input from any fans or players. So I'vedecided to change that. Feel free to voice your thoughts on the newest announcement.
Timeline;
Day 1; RESPO
Week 3; Bugs & Issues forum planned to be implimented
Week 5-7; Small update planned
Weeks 7+; Torn speed should be improved back to before RESPO
Weeks 8+; More updates planned gradually getting bigger in size to fix RESPO
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As for my own thoughts;
"We've been using our internal bug reporting systems and taking in only the most serious issues"
- Opening a Bugs & Issues forum is pointless, general chat is already filled with those and giving us another forum to tell you about the bugs and issues wont do anything unless you plan on fixing them all, which according to your statement you don't plan on doing until all the serious issues you've found are fixed. Not to mention it will have taken you almost 4 weeks since the Respo to actually implement a Bugs & Issues forum...
"Active daily players has dropped by about 10%. This is expected, as such a huge change was bound to knock out a few who were on the verge of quitting anyway (mainly those who did not want to hang around to get used to it)"
- If you knew such a huge chancewas going to cause you to lose players, why even do it? As a player who has drastically reduced playing time since the update, I find this statement to be a bit of a dick move. You acknowledge that the Respo Update has made you lose players then claim the ones who left were going to leave anyway and didn't try coping with the bug filled update. While granted a few people were bound to leave, when you lose 10% of your player base its because you've done something wrong. Simple as that. Don't blame the players for something that you implemented.
"I expect in 2 - 4 weeks they’ll start rolling out one by one. We’ll start with some smaller updates first, working our way up"
- So around 5 -7weeks after theupdate before we even get a smallupdate to fix theissues... and its going to take even longer after that?That seems way too long considering by that time you'll have probably lost a lot more of your fan base than 10%... if you'd told everyone that Respo was going to be this buggy and take over a month to fix then I'm sure that player drop would have been more along the lines of 50%. Making the game almost unplayable for people for a month... hope you compensate the donators...
"This should reduce the amount of clicks to complete routine tasks, and give you the option for always showing vital information on screen."
- Oh my god... its going to do what it should have been able to do in the first place ¬_¬ Seriously though, when this is one of the big announcement it just angers me as a Torn fan. The tasks on Torn were simply 'one click' before and then you made it overly complicated. Now you've realised that issue however you are only fixing it for mobile users? That is dumb.
"These issues are a priority for us, but there’s so many different devices out there it’ll take some time before we can eliminate all of the problems. When the Bugs & Issues forum is open"
- If these issues are a priority for you, then why did you design the update without testing it on other devices in the first place? Its like Respo had no testing whatsoever. As for the comment about the Bug & Issues forum, refer to my above point about that.
"Over the coming weeks you should notice Torn get a little faster"
- This could easily be fixed by trimming 99% of the RESPO additions such as pointless flash animated images, countdown timers, the forced factor of having to click the same thing multiple times to get where you're going. Basically undo the RESPO, because the prior version was streamlined and faster.
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Lets face it, the RESPO has made 10% of your players leave, increased bugs and issues and made the game missing vital aspects. Nobody isenjoying the RESPO - if anything they are struggling to play due to the Bugs & Issues. Yet according to this announcement its going to be almost a month before they even have implemented any changes to fix these issues...
Seeing as apparently Torn Staff believe that the update bugs are fixed, felt another bug thread was needed due to the insane amount of issues with the new update that don't appear to be getting fixed. Had the same error since the update and it occurs generally whenever I go to do crimes. You click a crime and then instead of doing the crime it pops up with 'I 0'
Its not lack of nerve and its not double clicking- this is another error that hasn't been fixed. Anyone else getting it? I know about 10 others... but wondering just how much of the Torn user base is affected.
Ched openly referred to it as 'abuse of mechanics' - which is cheating. As you said, "He's ultimate authority on that issue no matter how most of us feel"
Not sure why people are ignoring Ched's remarks and claiming he did not openly label them as abusing the mechanics of the game.
The 'Too Little Too Late' remark was more in regards to when the punishment arrived as opposed to what the punishment was.
I mentioned the 4000 players in that regard, potentially more, who have been affected by Pink Power directly due to the 204 choosing who remained in the competition. Other teams would have had a higher chance of remaining in the competition if the odds were not stacked against them so highly, such as 'Murica.
Adding a new element, such as a punishment that affects one of the main teams several days into elimination would leave anyone who was knocked out prior wondering whether such action would have helped them to remain in the competition longer - i cannot say for certain that 4000 people were annoyed though, you are right about that.
You are right, many would'nt remark on Duke if it benefitted them - however in this case i think it's more that the elimination is almost completely broken and people will be annoyed until the ending (where Pink Power may still win) I'm mostly just trying to analyse what went wrong, ignoring the flashy title of this thread ofcourse :P
Duke was entered into this as punishment that was intended to either wipe Pink Power from the competition or make it somewhat of a level playing field - likely the second option as i expect Ched wanted to demonstrate how everyone banding together would have worked - instead it backfired on him.
The fact that someone constantly auto-hospitalising your entire team does not wipe you from the competition shows that there was no way normal players could defeat you - even with practically every member of your team constantly being attacked - you are still able to gain points efficently.
It effectively confirms that there was no possible way the teams could have grouped together to defeat Pink Power, because even at 'maximum effort' with Duke, it means nothing - thus undermining Ched's remarks that everyone could just band together. Hence another reason why sending Duke was stupid, because it undermines Ched and proves the inbalanced nature of elimination and the flaws in its mechanics due to hospitalising.
I'm not sure what you expected to see, coming to the forums general in a time of a competition that has basically annoyed over 4000 players on Torn - plus potentially many more.
If you are sick of seeing it, then you do not have to, you can browse any other aspect of the forums - nobody is forcing you to read this - you clicked on it willingly knowing what it was about.
Commenting to say about the thread just provides nothing other than padding the thread and making it remain topic of the general, which in turn triggers more of you. So if you, Billiken, Shampoo or anyone else wants these threads to stop, then stop replying and giving it focus.
@Kief With respect, a majority of PP was in hospital or travelling almost constantly prior. As such, I do not see how being in hospital or travelling now changes much.
I can understand the initial panic that may have occured, but the strategy of survival for all teams has always been 'stay in hospital/travel to regen medical/energy unless you can attack' - it's no secret, it's just logical to try and survive in a competition where the majority of points are lost via hospitalising. Every team has been following this, so the idea that someone is being punished by being hospitalised is a bit silly to me.
E.g. Duke hospitalises the PP Player = PP lose three points PP players gets out of hospital and attacks three players with attack/leave = PP gains nine points Duke hospitalises the PP player again = PP loses three points
Overall gaining the PP player three points and allowing them to stay in hospital till energy/medical recharges. A high levelled player with high energy and stats/items could easily last longer enabling them to get more points.
@Shampoo Not making a thread gives the impression that everything is fine, 'no news is good news'.
Collateral Damage; Pink Power has a player group of 1000, out of which only 204 actively abused the mechanics and the remaining 796 were either unaware or only benefited from those players. Rather than actually taking out the people who have been acknowledged as abusing the mechanics or preventing them from getting the merits/awards/benefits of getting a higher place in the competition - instead they are just getting hospitalised.
Too little too late; Duke was unleashed upon Pink Power a few days after Elimination had started despite reports on Pink Power from the very start of elimination, meaning several players lost out completely and other teams had straight-up quit. Four teams were out the competition already with over 3000 players affected and the recent elimination of Original Gangsters adds an extra 1000 to that. With 4000 players basically out the competition before Pink Power even started to get punished, it makes the punishment feel meaningless.
It's actually helping Pink Power; Pink Power benefited from a simple tactic earlier in the competition, the weaker members remained constantly in hospital while the stronger members either intentionally hospitalised themselves or were too high level to reach. Duke as such is actually doing them a favour as shown by how they have slowly increased from 0 to 583 - the high levelled players are getting out and causing enough damage to support the entire team thanks to the massive amount of Xanax and refills they have.
The damage to Torn as a whole; Many users in Pink Power and other teams have stated they do not plan to donate or support torn financially in the future, the forums are littered with people pointing out how terrible this elimination competition has been and the bad word of mouth is going to drive away more potential players. The fact that the punishment is actually helping the team is insane and I'm not sure how it was overlooked that it was the worst idea possible to hospitalise them.
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To summarise, Duke is doing very little to actually punish Pink Power - at the rate they are going Pink Power may actually survive until the 5th Elimination round at the rate they are going or possibly still win the competition due to how broken the Elimination actually is.
Honestly, the entire thing should be torn down and restarted with RNG to decide who is on which team and to ensure every team has full players before the competition starts.
I'd like to be wrong, as it would add an element of chance, but unfortunately analysing the stats provided often reveals the outcomes.
Only rare exceptions like the 'all against Pirates' or 'Illuminati resigning' make predicting difficult. If people wanted to they could take out another team between now and 5th elimination, but based on what has occurred so far doing so would be more tedious for them so they would just focus on Pacifists.
The competition's first five eliminations are pretty much set in stone at this stage, so lets examine why that is and examine what happened;
1st Elimination; Murica (594 players) Murica had the second smallest amount of players putting them at a serious disadvantage, out of those players many were inactive or simply decided not to compete upon realising they were outnumbered and have very few active high level players. As such the team never surpassed 500 score and were taken out first in the competition.
2nd Elimination; Pirates (1000 players) Pirates was Pink Power's major rival in regards to attacks and the inclusion of MarlonBrando coupled with people fearing PP resulted in an uneasy alliance which took them out during the second stage of the competition.
3rd/4th Elimination; Short Bus (624 Players) Short Bus was targeted next primarily due to the third lowest amount of players and the lower score, it is unclear whether they were intentionally targeted or simply understood they were being taken down, however it is clear that they were at risk due to the lower player count. They would almost certainly be out the competition third, except Illuminati decided to resign meaning they may survive to 4th.
3rd/4th Elimination; Illuminati (1000 players) Illuminati resigned officially shortly after Pirates were taken out of the competition, despite allying with several groups and trying to take down Pink Power with less than positive results. They will likely be eliminated in third or fourth place, however its clear they desire to be out the competition due to PP's actions (acknowledged as 'abuse of mechanics' by Ched) and as such most the other teams have moved on to attacking Pacifists
5th Elimination; Pacifists (507 players) Despite the low amount of players, Pacifist seemed to have a fairly active team unlike 'Murica. The survival of the team seems to have been primarily because the other teams have wanted someone they could easily take out kept around for their own survival. Since the resignation of Illuminati, Pacifists have now been heavily targeted by the remaining teams.Though they are currently fighting to try and regain points, they will certainly be targeted by the remaining teams who all maintain a score of close to 5000 - to ensure that the 5th place elimination is predictable rather than left to the last few attacks.
Seen lots of comments about elimination - it is arguably one of the most controversial competitions in Torn City and has generally been received poorly.
Yet i'm not seeing many suggest how to fix it for next year, so here is your chance to give your thoughts* on what could be done better in regards to the handling of the competition.
*Discussion of PP should be avoided here, as there are already many topics regarding it and i'm certain Ched is already thinking of ways to fix that for next year.
Locking the gender would just mean Pink Power would win next year's elimination as all the members would have the option to join Pink Power again because they'll all remain female.
Switching gender mid-competition removes the point of gender based teams.
Personally I still need the 500 and 1000 revive awards/honour. This competition provides an influx of players to the hospital enabling me to mass revive and get considerably closer to getting these awards/honour. If users did not want to be revived, they would turn off revives.
As such the only ones I am reviving are those who want to be revived or those who were inactive for the entire competition and did not turn off revives. This is an aspect entirely the users decision - if they do not wish to be revived they would turn off revives.
The majority of those in hospital are PP members primarily because they are doing the best in the competition and as such other players are hosping them to try to lower the score they have - as such when i select those from the hospital page they are, a majority of the time, going to be from PP. To limit effect on the competition i am aiming to revive only those who are inactive.
While i understand the core concept and ideas behind this, having a 25-50 attack increments per elimination would just mean if someone was continually hospitalised or overdosed and the medical limit was maxed they would be out of the running. Though personally i do agree that a lot of the members joined teams solely to leech off them without contributing at all so there does need to be something in place to prevent that.